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Interviewer: Something comes up and you can't get an appointment with your doctor, but you can see a physician assistant. Jennifer Coombs is a PA. Will I get just as good care from a PA as from a doctor?

Jennifer: Absolutely. PAs are very well-trained and qualified to see patients for quite certainly simple issues, but also complex issues. You're going to see PAs in neurology. You're going to see PAs in the nursing home. You're going to see PAs in family practice clinics.

Interviewer: Wow. So even in specialty care there are physician assistants.

Jennifer: Absolutely. They're doing procedures. They're doing absolutely everything that their supervising physician can do.

Interviewer: And I suppose patients are happy that they're able to get in and get their problem taken care of.

Jennifer: So research shows that patients are just as satisfied with PA-provided care as with physician care, especially when there's a time trade-off.

updated: March 25, 2021
originally published: January 30, 2019

Interviewer: You made it to the interview round for physician assistant school, so congratulations. But now what? We're going to give you a few hints on how you can make a lasting impression with your PA school interview tips, which will be coming up next on The Scope.

Announcer: Navigating your way through med school can be tough. Wouldn't it be great if you had a mentor to help you out? Well, whether you're a first year or a fourth year, we've got you covered. The Med Student Mentor is on The Scope.

Interviewer: The interview for PA school is fast approaching but there's not a reason to freak out because we are going to give you some advice to help you prepare. Doris Dalton is the director of admissions for the University of Utah Physician Assistant program. She's going to explain what makes for a standout admissions interview. So what are the three most important components for a good interview, in your mind? I'm asking you to come up with the top three.

Doris: Top three. Number one is being prepared.

Interviewer: Yeah. And what does that entail?

Doris: How do people prepare for interviews? We had a candidate who has since graduated from our program and he was addressing some pre-PA students during one of my presentations. They asked him, "What did you do to prepare for your interview?" And he said he sat down and wrote down every question he could possibly think of that he might be asked and rehearsed them. He said he had 15 pages of questions.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Doris: And went through every one.

Interviewer: Sure. And had those answers ready. So that's number one. What else should I do, other than prepare?

Doris: Relax.

Interviewer: Okay. That's easier said than done.

Doris: Relax is probably number one.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Doris: And it's the hardest thing to do, but being relaxed will allow you to be comfortable. It will allow you to be confident and put your best foot forward to really be able to communicate well over the table.

Interviewer: So just be yourself, just be your well-prepared self? Is that part of relaxing? Don't try to be something you're not.

Doris: Be your well-prepared self.

Interviewer: I'm trying to think, if I went into that situation what might cause me not to relax, because I want it so much. So how do I get over that?

Doris: That's the biggest factor. And there's an intimidation factor. You're sitting across the table and that person is a PA and you want to be one.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Doris: And this interview is depending, my future is depending on this interview.

Interviewer: I know.

Doris: So it's high stakes and people get very, very nervous. And with our process we have multiple interviews and our candidates who come and interview with us always say, "Of course, you're nervous on your first interview." But once they figure out that we're nice people, you're a nice person, it allows you to relax and our candidates consistently say that by their second or third interview they felt a lot more comfortable.

Interviewer: Yeah, because they've gone through it. It's not unknown anymore.

Doris: That's right.

Interviewer: Maybe a little practice of the interview, have your friends interview you maybe. How about number three?

Doris: Number three, know your stuff.

Interviewer: Okay.

Doris: Know your stuff. Be familiar with your background that you've listed because you will be asked questions beyond what you've listed on your application. You will be asked to reflect on some of your experiences that you've already shared. You will be asked about the PA profession itself, the PA role. Do you have a solid understanding of what you're asking to get yourself in to?

Interviewer: Do you find that people come into the interview process without doing these three things or one of the three?

Doris: We do. We do.

Interviewer: More than I'd expect?

Doris: I think that most people who are really committed to going to PA school really know their stuff.

Interviewer: Gotcha, sure.

Doris: But I think being nervous about them prevents them from sharing that in a successful way.

Interviewer: Oh, all right. What are some of the common mistakes that people make in these interviews?

Doris: I think people fail to really think some of their responses out thoroughly. It's okay to sit back and breathe for a moment and ask yourself the question and take a moment to think about how you want to respond to it.

Interviewer: Yeah, what are they trying to find out with this question, what kind of answer could I give that will illustrate that?

Doris: And even better yet, how can I answer that question well. If you ask yourself in your brain, someone just asked me this question, and I'm going to respond with the first thing that comes to my head, I can ask myself internally, "And what about that and so what?" And challenge yourself to dig a little deeper.

Interviewer: So I would have five seconds, ten seconds to respond to a question and that's not going to count against me if you were across the table?

Doris: No, your interviewers know that you're thinking about how you want to respond to that.

Interviewer: That's not going to show you that I wasn't prepared?

Doris: You don't want a two-minute silence, but-

Interviewer: Okay.

Doris: Taking a breath and thinking about how you want to respond to that is normal.

Interviewer: What surprises people at these interviews, do you find. What did they not expect that might throw them for a loop?

Doris: People don't expect that it's not as tough as they think. And they get into their heads too much. Because, again, once they get to their second or third interview they feel a lot more relaxed and this is something that the candidates who come to interview with us and those that we accept consistently tell me, "I was so scared during my first interview and then I relaxed and I figured out that the faculty is nice people."

It's really more of a getting to know you process. Truly when you're invited to interview at all, for a job, for anything that you take an interview for, you know you're qualified, otherwise they wouldn't have invited you in. This is just a getting to know you process.

Interviewer: That's good advice. You don't need to prove your qualifications anymore, now you just need to prove your passion, or that you're a good person, or that you shower daily, or wear pants.

Doris: No, we just want to know a little bit more about you. You look great on paper, let's meet you, let's get a sense of your interpersonal skills. Relax and be yourself to share that.

Interviewer: Give me one killer tip that's going to really help me when I walk into that interview.

Doris: The thing that I often advise people is to try to understand what it's like to be on the other side of the interview table. This is something that's certainly worked for me in my experience with interviews, is being an interviewer. So that may not be something that you have an opportunity to do in your workplace, but if there is some hiring coming up where you work, you can ask your employer, "May I sit in?"

You don't have to be a voting member of that committee hiring the new person, but having a little bit of a perspective of what it's like to be on the other side of the table and looking at a nervous candidate, being in an interview, can really help you with some of your own confidence, that you understand from that perspective, it's just a getting to know you process.

Interviewer: Yeah, and also you could pick up, "Wow, I really liked it when they did that." Or "I really liked it when they did this." I always thought, coming in with a big smile and shaking the hand was kind of cheesy, but that really does make a difference.

Doris: It does. And it also will help you to understand why certain questions are asked. Why did you ask that question?

Interviewer: Any resources on this topic that you would drive people towards?

Doris: Practicing the interview and developing interview skills.

Interviewer: Okay.

Doris: Understanding what exactly an interview is. So one example might be if you're asked in an interview, "What are your weaknesses?" I'm not literally looking for "what are your weaknesses?" I'm looking for what is your level of self-awareness.

Interviewer: So pretty much any resource that helps you become a better interviewer is going to serve you for your PA interview.

Doris: Understanding those skills from the interviewer's side and from the interviewee's side.

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Interviewer: Think you got what it takes to survive physician assistant school? Find out the details of what life is actually like for PA students next, on The Scope.

Announcement: Navigating your way through med school can be tough. Wouldn't it be great if you had a mentor to help you out? Well, whether you're first year or fourth year, we've got you covered. The Med Student Mentor is on The Scope.

Interviewer: So you may think a career as a PA sounds pretty cool. But you may be a little nervous about what the schooling looks like to get there. We're here with Mia Gah and Kelly Moylen, current student at the University of Utah P.A. program, who can help you make sure PA school is the right fit for you. Hey ladies, thanks for joining us.

Mia: Thanks for having us.

Interviewer: Absolutely, so what does a typical day look like in PA school?

Kelly: Well let's see, we are typically in school Monday through Friday, from 8 to 5. So it's like a full-time job. We do get an hour at lunch to go outside and run or keep studying. Whatever kind of works for you. You're up early and you're at school and your brain is firing all day long. And then you come home and you just kind of got to keep with it and it goes all night long as well and it's just one day at a time.

Interviewer: Wow, that's intense.

Mia: I would say that time management is key. I know that some of my classmates study less during the week and study more on the weekends, and some study more on the week days and less on the weekend, and really finding what works for you is important and just not getting behind, just staying on top of it and managing your time well is key.

Kelly: Neither of us have family with children, but there are students in the program who have multiple children who are also managing a home life with kids. And it's doable but it's totally time management and I think it's really important to not let go of the social things that drive you and keep you sane. And not let go of the physical activities that drive you and keep you sane.

Interviewer: What would you say is the most challenging aspect of PA school?

Kelly: I would say it's the amount of information and the rate at which we get it and are expected to obtain it. It is like mini medical school. They go for four years and they get the summers off initially. We go for two years constantly, no summers off all day long, and it is everything shoved in really quickly. So really taking that all in and being able to process it knowing like I need to know this stuff, I don't just need to memorize it. I actually need to know this stuff. So making sure that you're really sinking it in.

Mia: Managing time is hard as well. It's hard to stay on top of it and still make time for family and friends and fun.

Interviewer: Sure. So on the flip side, what is the most rewarding part of being in PA school?

Kelly: Knowing that it's all going to be done in two years and then I'm going to be able to be a PA and I'm going to be able to be a health care provider at the level I've been after for so long. And to be able to be hands on with patients all the time. And to be a positive part of our health care system that seems so messed up at this time and how can we help get people healthcare who need it.

Interviewer: Great. And what's been to most rewarding part for you, Mia?

Mia: When I think about it, and I think about two years down the road, it's not all over. It's really just the beginning. But that is exciting and I would agree with Kelly and that we are a part of a profession that is unique, and exciting, and we can do so much with it. And so that's kind of... that's always in the back of my mind. And it's going to be a career for life and I am so excited to have that.

Interviewer: How many hours a night are you up working on homework, how much work do you have?

Kelly: I would say that kind of depends on the block that we're focused on at that time. Summer semester was our first semester and that seemed to be this real trial by fire. All of a sudden your whole world changed. This semester I feel it's going a lot better. I feel like I'm able to study maybe a little less because I'm studying in a more focused manner. And I'm more in tune with what I need to do to be successful, where in the summer it was like oh my goodness, what have we gotten into and how do we take this all in. I try to get in at least an hour of studying every night of the week. Sometimes I get in a little bit more and sometimes I get in a little bit less, but then I really hit it hard on the weekends, is where I tend to do most of my studying.

Mia: I would agree. I feel like I pretty much study the same and then on the weekends, say I get four hours in, I feel like I always need to study more. So, you get three hours in, you get six hours in, I feel like it's never enough.

Interviewer: How do you balance that work and play?

Kelly: You just have to. You just have to do it to stay sane, you absolutely do. And so we're lucky in that our building is located just where there are some trails right behind the school and to have a set of running clothes and to go run at break or to go for a bike ride or just to go for a walk. I think getting outside is huge. We sit all day in the same exact classroom. So just having a change of scenery is huge. If school gets out early or you have an opportunity to go have a hike or go do something fun outdoors with the family and friends, you just have to find the time to make it work because it's so key.

Interviewer: And is that what you personally do for your own stress relief is hiking and being outside, or what do you do?

Mia: Yeah, I like to run, I like to bike, I like to spend some time on the trails with my dog. Kelly and I went for a bike ride after class a couple weeks ago with another classmate. So I think we're pretty good at doing that.

Kelly: And you can study and run and bike at the same time.

Interviewer: You listen to recordings? [inaudible 00:05:54]

Interviewer: You do a little pop quiz when you get to the top of the hill, okay tell me about whatever and then you can process it a little bit, so you can, you know...

Mia: I listen to lectures when I run.

Interviewer: My goodness, it never ends,

Mia: I know, it never ends.

Interviewer: So what qualities does it take to succeed in PA school?

Kelly: A lot of time management is definitely, I think, the key to it. I mean you could be a super smarty pants, and if you can't manage the time, I think you might explode. But to be driven, to take the knowledge in, is I think being driven is key.

Mia: I think working well with people is really important. We do a lot of hands on, practicing the provider-patient role and that's a big part of health care. And so you need to have that drive, you need to have that care.

Kelly: And I think working together is key, too. Like everyone has their little study groups that they work with. And sometimes they're bigger and sometimes they're smaller depending on what's going on and I personally don't think I could do this on my own. And I don't know that anyone in the program feels like they could solely do the studying and everything that you need to do on their own. So being able to work with people is huge.

Interviewer: PA school isn't exactly cheap, so how do you balance student loans and debt with your day to day life and do you find yourselves living that typical rogue grad-student lifestyle that you hear of so much?

Mia: We were just talking about this actually. And I think it just depends on the person and their financial situation. and their background, and you make it work. You somehow make it work. Everybody can do it.

Kelly: Yeah. By the tine you've gotten into grad school, you've played the "What is the financial aid available to me?" I think folks often know what that is. So taking whatever your financial aid situation is to the office and presenting it. And if you have a lot of need, you're more likely to get more, and using what the school has to offer knowing that when you're done you are going to be making more money. And you're going to be able to pay back in the end.

Mia: It's less daunting than a four-year program.

Interviewer: Less to pay back.

Kelly: There are scholarships available. There's bigger and smaller things that you can apply for. And I think if you're someone who needs that extra to look for them and to apply for them, because they're out there, too.

Interviewer: So both of you are in PA school right now, but what's next for you, what's on the horizon?

Mia: PA school.

Interviewer: More PA school.

Mia: Yeah.

Kelly: I have a strong desire to practice in primary care upon graduation. In lots of areas there are clinics for under served, and I think that is a huge population that I would like to help.

Mia: I feel the same. I worked in a small clinic for three years that served a lot of undocumented and under served. And I could definitely see myself working in a similar clinic. But clinicals are coming next year and we have a lot on our plate, and I'm excited to see what else is out there for us.

Kelly: Our program has a primary care focus, not all PA programs across the nation... some of them have specialties and such, but I think too, until you get into the clinicals and really see what all the different aspects are like, maybe you get there and you're like, "I love cardiology, who knew?" But and that's kind of the beauty of being a PA is that you can be like, "I actually really like cardiology and I want to do that." And then you're like, "Gosh you know what? But actually I would like to do some dermatology." And you can change and do that.

Where as, as an MM you have to do a residency and do a whole new set of training in order to change a field. And it's kind of the joy of being a PA is that if you decide that your life moves in a different direction, you can go with that and really harness it.

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Announcer: Navigating your way through a med school can be tough. Wouldn't it be great if you have a mentor to help you out? Well, whether you're first year or fourth year, we got you covered. The Med Student Mentor is on The Scope.

Interviewer: There's a growing interest surrounding becoming a PA, so we're going to help answer some frequently ask questions if you're considering PA school. We're here with Mia Gah and Kelly Moylan, students in the University of Utah PA Program.

Thanks for joining us, ladies.

First, I just want to hear a little bit about your background. So after you graduated undergrad, what did you do before entering PA school, Kelly?

Kelly: My undergrad was in therapeutic recreation and I worked as a wilderness therapist with troubled youth for about 10 years. I took a slight detour from there. She used to be a ski bum for a period of time...

Interviewer: Awesome.

Kelly: ...which lead me to working as a medical assistant up at the Alta Clinic up at the ski resort. So I was a medical assistant and office manager there for about five years.

Interviewer: Great. All right. So, Mia?

Mia: I studied at the University of Colorado in Boulder and I studied integrated physiology in Spanish. When I graduated, I spent a year and a half travelling and shadowing doctors in Spain.

Then I worked as a medical assistant for about three years at a family planning clinic in Boulder, Colorado. I also did a one year master's program in bio medical sciences at Regis in Denver, Colorado before coming here.

Interviewer: All right. So you probably get this question a lot. Why did you choose PA school over medical school?

Kelly: We do get that question a lot. So I had originally thought I was going to apply to medical school. I was doing the post back for all of that. And as I really started to get a grasp of like time and money it was going to take to graduate from medical school versus time and money it was going to take to graduate from PA school, I had decided that PA school was the way better up to go. I didn't want to graduate and have $350,000 plus worth of debt to pay off at 45.

Interviewer: Absolutely.

Kelly: So PA school seemed to be the better way to go.

Interviewer: Yeah. And did you have a similar experience, Mia?

Mia: I would say that it took me a little while to figure out the best career path for me. I worked with nurse practitioners, with doctors, with nurses. I have a bunch of friends as PAs and I wasn't sure exactly where I wanted to go.

I think that finally I realized that PAs have a unique place in health care today especially with the need for primary care physicians and anybody in primary care and I think PA has play a really unique role in that. And so I thought that would be the best fit for me.

Interviewer: So what do you think it takes to become a successful PA?

Kelly: Step on would be getting into school. It's super competitive. So having the drive to get into a program is key. Once we've gotten there, the drive continues and I would say even increases like tenfold. It feels like it's constant, you don't stop. So just being ready to take it on.

Interviewer: How do you feel about that, Mia?

Mia: I think it's important to really know about career path you want so that you know that you want to be a PA and you don't want to be a doctor and you don't want to be a nurse and what you can do is a PA. I think it's really important to have that foundation.

Interviewer: So what does the job market look like for you once you graduate?

Kelly: We don't probably really know until we start applying. But it sounds like from everything that we're being told that it's only going to increase that there's going to be jobs. It seems like everywhere hopefully. So it looks good and I'm hoping that that's how it's going to be.

Interviewer: Anything you want to add, Mia?

Mia: Yeah. I think that we both said primary care is a good place for PAs, but I also know that from what we've heard, it seems like in any field, I think PA would be a good career path.

Interviewer: If someone is looking in to become a PA and planning on applying for school, how do they prepare themselves now for what is to come?

Mia: I would suggest shadowing a lot of people. So shadowing any field that you're interested in, shadow some radiology techs, shadow some doctors, shadow everybody in the health care field to figure out if that's what you want to do.

And just to get a feel for what types of jobs you can do now to prepare you because you need a lot of clinical hours especially here for University of Utah. Some other programs you don't need as many hours, but those clinical hours are key before you apply, not only to get into school but once you're in school. It's going to help you a lot.

Interviewer: How does somebody really know that being a PA is the right career path for them versus being a nurse or a doctor or something else?

Mia: One thing that drew me to the PA profession was the medical model versus the nursing model. So that was something that set apart PA school from nursing school.

Interviewer: Can you tell me a little bit more about that medical model?

Mia: PA school, I call it mini medical school. I think accelerated medical school.

Kelly: Yeah.

Mia: The nursing model from what I understand, the classes are more theory.

Kelly: And it's more care giving as opposed to...

Mia: Exactly.

Kelly: ...Diagnosing and treating.

Mia: I'm going to focus on primary care again because I think that's a really unique role for PAs. The health care system is very burdened right now. For me, it feels like the health care system as a whole, I'm doing something good.

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Interviewer: You want to apply for physician assistant school but you're not sure what to highlight on your application. I'm going to give you the ABCs of the PA school admission's process and some helpful tips coming up next on The Scope.

Announcer: Navigating your way through med school can be tough. Would it be great if you have a mentor to help you out? Well, whether you're 1st year or 4th year, we’ve got you covered. The Med Student Mentor is on The Scope.

Interviewer: It’s time to put pen to paper and apply for PA school but what are the steps you're going to have to take and what should you put on that application? I'm going to try to demystify that and give you a couple hints here with Doris Dalton. She's the Director of Admissions for University of Utah Physician Assistant program. She's here to give you some tips that will make the process easier, and maybe help give you a leg up on getting that application and getting into PA school.
There's a lot of stuff to submit when you're applying for PA school. Is there something that trips off a lot of applications first of all?

Doris: I think for most applicants, there is the intimidation of the Central Application process. It's a huge application in which candidates spend a great deal of time entering all of their coursework, all of their background, their personal statement, getting their references in. At the end of the process, you have something like a 20-page application.

Interviewer: Wow. Is all of that information really crucially important?

Doris: It is, it is. The Central Application Service will look at those applications and through this service, you can apply to multiple PA schools. There are over 190 PA schools in the country, most of which participate in the Central Application Service. So it's a one-stop shopping application where candidates will apply to so many programs, all of the programs of their choice through this one-stop shopping method. Different programs are looking at different things in the application process.

Interviewer: So that's why you just really can't skimp on it. Because I know a long process, I'd be like, "Do you really need to know this?" because about halfway through you're exhausted.

Doris: Absolutely. Absolutely. It takes many many hours to put together or cast an application.

Interviewer: So maybe break it up into days?

Doris: Or months.

Interviewer: Don't do it all. Okay, all right.

Doris: Some people start when the applications cycle opens in the spring and spend a month or two working on it, returning to it at their leisure.

Interviewer: I want to know, so other than the Central Application, what are some of the other things you have to submit for the application process? I'm asking you because eventually I want to get to is one of those things more important than the others.

Doris: Again, it depends on the program. That's the difficult thing with the Central Application Service is how do I present myself as a fit for this program as opposed to that program through this one process.

Interviewer: Oh sure, yeah.

Doris: Many programs also offer a supplemental or a secondary application by which they're collecting information from the applicant beyond what is on the Central Application Service.

Interviewer: Okay. So you get that central application filled out, you might have, depending on your program, some secondary stuff to fill out. Is that the opportunity you have to really tell that program why you're perfect for them exclusively?

Doris: It certainly is for Utah. Our secondary application is something of an online interview. We pose to the candidate interview style questions and give them a limited amount of time to respond to those questions through a website. We basically treat it like an online interview.

Interviewer: Got you. So in that online interview, is there anything I should be aware of when I'm answering these questions that might help me answer them better?

Doris: I think candidates need to sit back and think. When you're asked a question, you don't really want to just answer it off-the-cuff and say the first thing that comes to your mind. It's really helpful to sit back, ask yourself, “What kind of a question is this? What kinds of things might they be looking for in my response to this question? How might I draw from my life experience to really answer this question well?”

Interviewer: Yeah. So if you've ever done anything like a behavioral based interview, "Tell me about a time when overcame an obstacle,” is it those types of questions?

Doris: Absolutely, self-reflection kinds of questions.

Interviewer: You can think about those in advance and there's a lot of resources you can use to figure out what some of those questions might be.

Doris: Also ask yourself, “Is this going to be a typical response and how might I have a response that's just above and beyond something that just about anybody might respond to if you have a question?”

Interviewer: Yeah. What would constitute that type of response for you?

Doris: In a recent scenario from a question that we've posed in the past, a question around having a personal goal that you failed to meet. How do you respond to it? What was the outcome? Many candidates came across with a response something along the lines of, “I took a class, I didn't get the grade I wanted. I run a marathon, I didn't get the time I wanted,” and these are very common things.
A lot of people have personal goals where they didn't quite meet their goal at the end of the day. The really above and beyond responses were things where people really drew from difficult situations in their life experience that really demonstrates your ability to overcome obstacles.

Interviewer: So make it something that has some stakes?

Doris: Absolutely.

Interviewer: Like not finishing a race in a time you wanted is kind of like, "All right, that's great but that's not a big deal."

Doris: Put some meat into it.

Interviewer: Yeah. That's good advice. I like that. What qualifications should you start thinking about long before you apply and when should you actually start maybe doing that? Because applying for school happens way before you actually submit the application if I'm not mistaken.

Doris: It does. It's a process and for many candidates it could be many years if you're a career changer going from business to medicine, for example.
Our program and most PA programs do require health care experience, and so candidates don't really want to get through their undergraduate degree and apply for traditional graduate school immediately after they graduate if there are things to be done. Many of our candidates, in fact the majority of our candidates, have been in the workforce for a couple of years prior to when they apply.

Interviewer: Okay.

Doris: This is why you see accepted students who have a wealth of healthcare experience. It really contributes to their competitive factors and preparedness for graduate medical education.

Interviewer: So if somebody hasn't had any healthcare experience, don't really expect to get in the PA school?

Doris: There are programs that don't require it so much. It's really important to understand the role of the PA and having healthcare exposure at some level so that you'd know that you enjoy working with patients, that you're comfortable working with sick people, that this is the career that you want. So you certainly need some exposure to bolster your application even for those programs that don't specifically require it.

Interviewer: All right. So intentionally, I have left out some of the more common things you could find other places like what are all the things that you should submit and what's the timeframe of that sort of thing, because I think that there are a lot of resources out there for that. Any other advice you would have somebody when it comes to the application process beyond that?

Doris: I think self-reflection is really, really important. Again, going back to don't just answer the question but answer it well. I encourage candidates to reflect on their patient exposures on a day-to-day basis, think about what their patients teach them. When you're doing that on a regular basis, it's really going to give you a lot more food for thought and things to offer when you describe your experiences through your application, when you're describing your experiences and what it means for you through your interviews.

Interviewer: Yeah. I think that's great advice because when you try to write up a resume, if you sit down and you haven't given any thought to what you've accomplished, it could be just a really difficult task. But if you are going about your day trying to find those stories and those moments that are going to highlight your experience or how you overcame challenges, then you can go, "Ding," that's it. Write it down immediately and you have it.

Doris: It's the difference between describing your experiences in a list format and telling your story well.

Interviewer: So tell your story. That's good. Where could somebody go to get more info? Is there a resource that you would recommend?

Doris: Number of resources. Our website is pretty extensive with our requirements. We have a list of frequently asked questions. I certainly take appointments and phone calls and emails.

Interviewer: Oh really?

Doris: Absolutely.

Interviewer: So people could ask you questions or whatever.

Doris Sure. Do it all the time.

Interviewer: That's awesome.

Doris: The Physician Assistant Education Association is the national organization that represents all accredited PA programs and they have a resource called the PA Programs Directory where candidates can go and look at what are the requirements from multiple PA programs, how many students they accept, what is their tuition, what is their cycle, do they require the GRE, for example, and what might they need to apply the multiple PA schools when they're ready to do so.

Interviewer: What is the website to get a hold of you?

Doris: Our website is medicine.utah.edu/upap, which is the acronym for Utah Physician Assistant Program.

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Interviewer: What can a physician's assistant, or "P.A." do for you? We'll talk about that next, on The Scope.

Announcer: Medical news and research from University of Utah: physicians and specialists you can use for a happier and healthier life. You're listening to The Scope.

Interviewer: All right, you have called the doctor's office because you want to get an appointment, and the person at the other end of the phone says, "Well, the doctor isn't going to be able to see you, but we can have a physician's assistant see you," do you hesitate and think, "oh man, am I sacrificing some quality care?" It's a common question. Jennifer Coombs, who has been a P.A. for 21 years will hopefully be able to answer that and some other questions about physician's assistants. Thanks for stopping by.

Jennifer Coombs: Hi.

Interviewer: Did I make you bristle a little bit there?

Jennifer Coombs: No, I think there's a great question, and I want to talk about how P.A.s are utilized in a clinic and how patients have really come to accept physician's assistants now. We're an integral part of the healthcare system, and I think it's going to be all hands on deck here in the future with us. We have big, big healthcare needs that are going to need some very trained professionals that are going to be able to help people out there.

Interviewer: So help me understand, what exactly is a physician's assistant? I think most people get what a doctor is, but what is a P.A.?

Jennifer Coombs: A physician's assistant is a medical professional, we're nationally certified, we're licensed to practice in the state of Utah, we can prescribe medications, we can see patients for really, a lot of the issues that you're going to call and need to be seen for, you can have a P.A. see you. And most patients are really happy with the care that P.A.s are giving, and you can get in, you can get out, and get your needs taken care of.

Interviewer: So what's the educational difference between a physician's assistant and an actual doctor?

Jennifer Coombs: P.A.s are trained in the medical model, work very closely with their supervising physician, they have a great deal of autonomy, and we're trained in, it actually came out of a fast track medical model post world war II where they thought about training physicians in a little faster way. That is a didactic year and a clinical year. It's about three academic years, 2,000 clinical hours. It's a very rigorous program.

Interviewer: So, in a lot of cases, if I have the option of seeing a physician that has say 10 years of experience and a P.A. that has 10 years of experience for kind of a common issue, would the P.A. actually maybe even be better able to handle that because they've seen more of it?

Jennifer Coombs: Absolutely, P.A.s are very well trained and qualified to see patients for quite certainly simple issues, but also complex issues. You're going to see P.A.s in urology, you're going to see P.A.s in the nursing home, you're going to see P.A.s in family practice clinics.

Interviewer: Wow, so even in specialty care there are physician's assistants.

Jennifer Coombs: Absolutely, they're doing procedures, they're doing absolutely everything that a supervising physician can do.

Interviewer: So then what is the difference?

Jennifer Coombs: Well you know, I think just like any physician, if you have a need that that provider can't help you with, they're going to refer you. And they're going to refer you to the right person.

Interviewer: Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Coombs: So I think that we're all out there trying to get the patient the proper care that they need. I'm certainly going to see a patient, and if they have a need to see a urologist, I'm going to refer them to that urologist because that's something that I can't necessarily do. So I think P.A.s can coordinate care and they can provide care, and they're doing it all, again, with the supervising physician as someone that they can talk to, bounce ideas off of. The supervising physician often bounces ideas for their patients off the P.A.

Interviewer: Sure. I'm going to ask you kind of about a stereotypical question that I believe a lot of people have. So as a P.A., why did you decide to stop there and not go on to medical school?

Jennifer Coombs: You know, that is a question that almost every P.A. gets asked. You get asked that in the interview to P.A. school, you get asked that in the clinic, and a lot of people say, "well, aren't you going to be a doctor some day?" They just assume that. And you know, the thing is it's just a great profession. So many P.A.s, you ask them, "would you want to be a doctor?" or you know, "are you considering being a doctor?" They're so happy doing what they're doing, you could provide so much care. If you had to do it over again, you'd be a P.A..

Interviewer: All over again, huh?

Jennifer Coombs: And I guess what happens is, patients come in, they see you, you talk to them, they're very pleased with the visit, and usually it never comes up again.

Interviewer: Gotcha, gotcha. So in your mind, what makes being a P.A. so much better than being a physician?

Jennifer Coombs: Well, I'm not a physician, so I don't know how it would be to be honest.

Interviewer: But you see what their lives are like.

Jennifer Coombs: I think P.A.s are in a sweet spot of medicine, which is that, I can always say, "well you know, let's get some help with this," and you know, you might end up grabbing your supervising physician, bringing him in the room to see the patient with you. You just feel like you're right in the middle of a really effective team, and I think that makes for a very satisfied patient, and a very satisfied provider.

Interviewer: And it seems to me that with healthcare, it's kind of going towards a direction of more team based care if I understand correctly.

Jennifer Coombs: Absolutely, and the thing is, in this country we're going to have a lot of people who have health insurance, hopefully, and we also have an aging population, and that means that we're going to have to see people. And we need to provide access to care. That's a big part of what's going to have to happen. And so the physician can't do it all, they're going to need help. And I think that one of the things that's really been great is that P.A.s have been able to come in and fill needs in lots of different spaces, in specialty care, in primary care, and I think it's a concept that has worked well for close to 50 years now, and the reason is because of the team.

Interviewer: So as a consumer of healthcare, if somebody says, "the doctor can't see you, but we can get you in to see a P.A.," I shouldn't worry about that at all.

Jennifer Coombs: I don't think you should worry about it at all, I love seeing my P.A., and I like taking my kids to see a P.A., I think that we provide very good care.

Interviewer: Anything that I left out? Any final thoughts or anything that you would like to add?

Jennifer Coombs: So the bottom line is that research has shown that patients accept and enjoy seeing a P.A. just as much as they like seeing their regular physician, especially if there is a time trade off.

Announcer: We're your daily dose of science, conversation, medicine. This is The Scope; the university of Utah health sciences radio.

Interviewer: It's one of the hottest careers in medicine right now. It's one of the hottest careers in the country right now. We're going to find out what that is coming up next on The Scope.

Announcer: Medical news and research from University of Utah physicians and specialists you can use for a happier and healthier life. You're listening to The Scope.

Interviewer: It's one of the best master's degree you can get for jobs. What is it? We're going to find out right now. We're with Jennifer Coombs. She's been a P.A. for 21 years, a physician's assistant. That career is hot, hot, hot right now. Why is that?

Jennifer Coombs: I think we're in a new cost effective world. P.A.s provide care for patients in a very cost effective way. I like to say we're good in good times and good in bad times. If you want to see a physician, there's a shortage of physicians, P.A.s are going to be, I think, increasingly utilized in our world.

Interviewer: How long have physician's assistants been around?

Jennifer Coombs: Nearly half a century. Physician assistants came out of the Vietnam War. There was a physician who saw returning military medics and all that they could do. He had this idea maybe we could train these people that have an incredible amount of experience to help the physician and really do a lot of the work that the physician can do.

Interviewer: It's a master's program. It's a master's degree to become a P.A. if I understand correctly. I was reading a 'Forbes' article and the salaries are pretty decent.

Jennifer Coombs: Salaries are good. Salaries are good out west. Salaries are good across the country. There are certainly more programs opening up. There's a lot of desire to be a P.A. I like to joke with my husband that I can't go to a wedding, I can't go to a funeral without somebody coming up to me and saying hey, I want to be a P.A., or I have a friend who wants to be a P.A.

Interviewer: In that 'Forbes' article median career, in the middle of your career, salaries are around $80,000. Is that true?

Jennifer Coombs: That is true, yes. It's a very good salary right out of school. P.A.s have a fair amount of debt, about half the debt that a medical student will have.

Interviewer: Okay. The question is a lot of people might hear those dollar signs and think this might be the career for me, but it probably takes a certain kind of person that would do well in this career. What is that person?

Jennifer Coombs: You definitely have to be called, I think, to medicine. Medicine is something that is going to require long hours and is going to require someone who really likes people and really has a desire to serve people. We're looking for that in the profession. I think we end up finding that because people who want to be a P.A., I often joke with our applicants, you become ambassador for the profession because your family's going to say why do you not want to be a doctor.

Interviewer: Yeah, sure, why don't you want to take it to the next step.

Jennifer Coombs: Pretty much everybody who's interested in being a P.A. has to be able to answer that question and defend it to their friends and family. They say you're bright enough, you get great grades, you could go to medical school. The person has to be able to say you know what, P.A.s are really happy. They ask P.A.s would you do it again. Most P.A.s say yes I'd do it again. School is rigorous, but you feel like you come out with a great deal of knowledge and you're ready to hit the ground running. You have autonomy out in practice. You work with physicians who respect you. Patients, for the most part, respect you and value your care. It's a really good job.

Interviewer: Yeah. The joke is a lot of physicians tend to be Type A personalities. Would the same thing be true for P.A.s, or is it a little bit more of a mellow crowd?

Jennifer Coombs: Definitely the P.A. crowd is usually a very personable group of people.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Jennifer Coombs: Yeah. Definitely high on people skills.

Interviewer: If somebody was interested in a career in becoming a physician's assistant, besides school and applying for schools, what are some of the things that they should do, say, somebody who is in high school? Or, there are a lot of P.A.s that become P.A.s in their 30s or 40s, aren't there? How could you prepare, I guess, is the ultimate question.

Jennifer Coombs: I think the most important thing to prepare for P.A. school is to get some health care experience. I know even high schools have pre-professional training and they have certified nursing assistant training that you can get. You can go to the community college and take courses to become a medical assistant. Get in some kind of training right away so that you can get some medical experience. You've got to know that you're going to want to work with people that are sick.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Jennifer Coombs: That is ultimately what you're going to be doing. That means there are going to be all kinds of people that you're going to work with. There are people that aren't going to be in good moods. It's tough work itself, so you have to get that early experience to know that's what you want to do.

Interviewer: What's the day to day of a P.A.?

Jennifer Coombs: P.A.s work in a variety of settings. You might be in a family practice office. In the office you're going to get there early so you can look over your charts and usually do a huddle with the medical assistants in your clinic. You look at your schedule. Then, you start seeing patients, and your day never reflects the schedule.

Interviewer: That's funny.

Jennifer Coombs: And, you have to be able to roll with the punches. Usually you have to do several things at once. I know a lot of the P.A.s that I see out in clinic, they're on the phone fielding a phone call, charting, and oftentimes talking to their supervising physician or one of the medical assistants. They're doing, like, three things at once.

Interviewer: My perception was that physician's assistants just were in family practice, but there are also specialty opportunities for physician's assistants?

Jennifer Coombs: They're intensivists at the hospital. They're in nursing homes. They're in neurology, urology. You can find P.A.s in every specialty. That's the other thing, too, is there are shortages of physicians in all specialties. If you have a child that has epilepsy and you want to get in to see a pediatric neurologist, it's nearly impossible. There are P.A.s working in those areas, and you might end up seeing a P.A. That gives you access. It gives you access to this Tier One system that we have.

Interviewer: Yeah, and it will give you access to a professional that could very possibly answer the question you had anyway it sounds like.

Jennifer Coombs: Absolutely, and coordinate your care, refer you on.

Interviewer: Very nice. Any final thoughts on somebody considering a career as a P.A.?

Jennifer Coombs: There are 187 programs right now that are accredited. I think you have to be able to apply to several programs in order to get in, and then the requirements are different at different programs. You have to be a good consumer of the school and what that school has to offer. At the University of Utah we have one of the oldest programs in the country. We have a very high quality program. Right now we're the only program in the state of Utah.

Announcer: We're your daily dose of science, conversation, medicine. This is The Scope, University of Utah Health Sciences Radio.