Search for tag: "injuries"

Interviewer: How to handle a knee injury. Dr. Julia Rawlings practices primary care sports medicine and also pediatric emergency medicine, and she is one of the physicians that you would find at the walk-in orthopedic clinic at University of Utah Health. I wanted to talk about knee injuries and young athletes actually. What are some common ways that young athletes can injure their knees? What specific sports or activities do you see?

Dr. Rawlings: Yeah. So it's really common to have a knee injury when you're playing sports, particularly contact sports. But severe injuries, including the ACL, don't always have to be from contact. So we typically see knee injuries that are acute, meaning they happen from a trauma, when you're doing an activity where there's either contact or you change directions quickly, so you're pivoting, you're shifting, you're changing your weight, and the knee can kind of buckle on you and get injured. In people that do more endurance-type sports, like cross country runners, we tend to see more chronic knee pain just from overuse.

Interviewer: Got you. So you kind of covered some of the common injuries to the knee. What could be handled at home without a clinic visit? And then we'll get to when you should perhaps consider coming in.

Dr. Rawlings: Yeah. So starting with an acute injury, meaning that's something you were out doing your sport, you were doing something, and all of a sudden you felt the knee pop, or you twisted it, or something happened. A couple of clues that I would give to go ahead and come in to be seen is, one, if you're having a hard time walking on your leg, then we would really like you to be seen sooner rather than later. We'd like to get X-rays and make sure there's nothing that's broken and then do a good examine and check out the ligaments and the meniscus of the knee.

Another clue is if your knee gets pretty swollen, then that means that there's something significant going on in your knee that should be seen sooner rather than later. Two more other clues, things that I like to ask people about and look for. If your knee feels like it's buckling under you, it's giving out when you walk, then there's the potential that every time it buckles, that we're doing more damage. And in that case, we'd like to get you on crutches and get you into a knee brace. Or if the knee is getting stuck or locked, meaning you can't bend it or you can't straighten it very well without kind of forcing it, those are all things that we'd want to see you sooner rather than later for.

Interviewer: And then when somebody comes into the clinic with some of those more serious symptoms, as you said, what does the clinic do?

Dr. Rawlings: Yeah. So if you have, say, a big swollen knee and we're worried about bigger injuries to the ACL or to the meniscus, something like that, what we would generally do is start off with X-rays, make sure there's nothing that's broken, and then we would do our exam, get a feel for what we think is going on, and then generally get you set up in a knee brace that's appropriate for the injury you have, plus or minus crutches. And then often, patients with significant injuries we'll get set up for an MRI to check out the soft tissue structures, which we can't see on X-ray, and get a definitive diagnosis. And then depending on what we see on our exam, we'll either get you set up with one of the non-operative sports medicine providers for follow-up or our sports medicine surgeons. My practice myself is I typically just let people know what their MRI shows, and then depending on what they need done, I'll then schedule the appointment with the appropriate follow-up person.

Interviewer: And when people come in, how often would you say that they could just come into the clinic and that's kind of it? It's just going to take a little bit of rest, and they're going to recover from their injury.

Dr. Rawlings: You know, it depends a little bit, I think, on the age demographic. So we do see a fair amount of people that come in with an acute knee injury that have just flared arthritis, and they don't actually have an injury to the ligament or something that we would need to do an MRI or surgery for. And those patients we really treat with physical therapy, maybe a steroid injection, and kind of getting them back to functioning, hopefully, so that we can prolong the longevity of their knee. In those cases, then, yeah, all they need really is just that visit in the orthopedic injury clinic and then a follow-up appointment down the road with a primary care sports medicine person or a sports medicine surgeon.

Interviewer: Are there any final thoughts you would want a listener to know about the clinic, or knee injuries, and how to handle that or take care of it?

Dr. Rawlings: I think definitely when in doubt, especially when it's an injury that's happened within the last day or two, come on in. We'll be happy to take a look at it. And if you're getting a chronic injury from training for a marathon, or in kids, they can often get growth plate injuries, again, if they've happened in the last three months, we're happy to see you in injury clinic for more of a chronic developing problem as well.

Interviewer: When should you consider University of Utah Health's Orthopaedic Injury Clinic over perhaps a visit to the ER or urgent care, or is it something you can handle on your own? That's what we want to find out today.

Dr. Julia Rawlings is a primary care sports medicine and also practices pediatric emergency medicine, but it's that sports medicine doctor that we really want to talk to today. So the first thing I want to find out is what are some of the common orthopedic injuries a person should consider using the Orthopaedic Clinic versus an ER or urgent care?

Dr. Rawlings: The Orthopaedic Injury Clinic is a great place to go if you have an acute injury, meaning that you have had an injury that you've sustained recently. We're actually willing to see people that have had an injury anytime in the last three months, but preferably not something that's chronic and going on. We'd rather you go ahead and make an appointment with a regular physician during regular hours, although it can be at the Orthopaedic Center.

Specifically, things that are good for the Injury Clinic. So we see a lot of injuries from the ski slopes. We see people that have been playing different sports, or running, biking. We see some football injuries. Anything that's kind of acute. Anything that could go to an urgent care can go to the Orthopaedic Injury Clinic if it's a musculoskeletal injury.

A couple of things we don't see at the Injury Clinic. We don't do stitches there. So if you're bleeding and you think you need stitches, an urgent care or the emergency department would be more appropriate. Also, if your bone is pretty crooked, it's probably a better idea to go to the emergency room. We can do some local numbing medicine to set some easy broken bones, fingers, and things like that, but larger fractures would need to be seen in the Emergency Department for sedation.

Interviewer: And what kind of diagnostic tools do you have there that kind of makes you the choice for some of these as opposed to perhaps an emergency room or an urgent care?

Dr. Rawlings: Yeah. So the Injury Clinic is fantastic because we have access to x-ray on-site, and we can see those images back as soon as they are done. And depending on the time of the day, we actually can often get the reads back from a musculoskeletal radiologist within a few hours. Sometimes those reads don't come back until the next day. We don't have the capability to do CT scans at the Injury Clinic. We do have access to scheduling MRIs in the building, but that's not done the same time as the visit.

So one great thing about the Injury Clinic is you get kind of a full package. So you get your x-rays. You could get an MRI set up. We have all of the braces and everything that you would need, crutches, things like that. And then, we can get you set up with a specialist, whether that's a sports medicine surgeon, foot and ankle surgeon, or one of our non-operative primary care sports medicine physicians. We will actually make that appointment for you while you're there for follow-up.

Interviewer: So the clinic, it sounds like a better option than perhaps making an appointment. It can be difficult to get in sometimes with an orthopedic doctor at times. So this clinic, it's primarily walk-in, is that how it works, or do you have to make an appointment?

Dr. Rawlings: It is walk-in. It's a little bit tricky right now with coronavirus going on, but, typically, it is walk-in. They are switching to appointments during this period of time, but that's going to be very temporary. Generally, it is walk-in, first come, first served.

Interviewer: How can a person decide if an injury is something that they can treat at home or they can just try to see if it's going to get better versus coming into the clinic or seeing a professional?

Dr. Rawlings: Yeah. So we're always happy to check anything out if you're not sure. A couple of tips that just come to my mind. One is if you have an injury that's bad enough you can't really walk on it or bear weight on it, that's something that should be seen, probably get an x-ray, make sure you haven't broken a bone. Or if you really can't move your shoulder or can't move your arm in some way. If you twist your ankle, and you're walking on it okay, and it gets a little bit swollen, that's something that you could probably wait on at home and see how you do. But, yeah, if you have a hard time moving a body part, that's a good time to go in.

Interviewer: All right. Are there some injuries that really you do want to have looked at, otherwise it could affect you and your mobility in the future?

Dr. Rawlings: Yeah. So there are definitely, particularly injuries that involve the joints. We often like to get a sooner look at what's going on rather than a later look, just because things can happen down the road that can lead to arthritis if they're not treated early. That being said, a lot of musculoskeletal injuries aren't emergencies. Meaning, even if you get something like a torn ACL, which is considered a pretty big injury in the sports world, if you're diagnosed several days after that happens, in general, that's okay. It's not something that absolutely needs to go to the emergency department or into the Injury Clinic even the same day you have it. You'd really be okay to get yourself a pair of crutches from the garage and come in a couple of days later.

Interviewer: For the particularly injury-prone that might have some crutches?

Dr. Rawlings: Exactly. There are a lot of people with crutches in their garage from siblings, so.

Interviewer: Any final thoughts that you have when it comes to the walk-in Orthopaedic Clinic? It's such a great resource. I was able to utilize it. I had a shoulder injury. I'm not even going to go into how that happened because it was not cool, it was not athletic. But it was great because I could go in, they were able to look at it, make sure that I didn't, you know, do any permanent damage, which I didn't, and then, you know, gave me a reference to go to a physical therapist to do some exercises to rehabilitate it, so.

Dr. Rawlings: I think it's a fantastic clinic. I mean, it's staffed by people that are trained in musculoskeletal medicine, so we have a little bit of an advantage over lots of the urgent cares that are more kind of general medicine, that we treat a lot of musculoskeletal injuries. We can get you set up with physical therapy pretty easily. And one or two days of the week, we actually have a physical therapist with us in-clinic. So if your injury is appropriate for that, we can even get you started on physical therapy the night that you come in. So I think it's a fantastic resource.

Dr. Madsen: E-scooters and the emergency room, are more people going as a result? We'll find out next on The Scope.

Announcer: This is From the Frontlines with emergency room physician Dr. Troy Madsen on The Scope.

Interviewer: Dr. Troy Madsen is an emergency room physician at University of Utah Health. And in Salt Lake City and a lot of communities, you'll see these e-scooters now. I bet you there's more people going to the ER, because sometimes it looks like maybe the people aren't riding them as safely as they should. Wanted to find out for sure though. Are you seeing more injuries as a result of e-scooters? What's going on in the ER here in Salt Lake?

Dr. Madsen: So in our Emergency Department, we are absolutely seeing more injuries related to e-scooters. I would say now we're seeing an injury related to scooters at least once every other day if not every day in the ER.

We looked at our numbers. We pulled all the records from our Emergency Department from this last summer, and we compared it to the summer before, because e-scooters have become very popular in Salt Lake City this year with a couple of rental companies coming in, and our number of e-scooter related injuries has significantly gone up.

Interviewer: Is it the people that are riding them that are getting hurt, or is it people that are walking and getting hit by somebody that's riding an e-scooter?

Dr. Madsen: You know, interestingly, I didn't see any cases of anyone who reported getting hit who came to the ER.

Interviewer: Hmm.

Dr. Madsen: I thought we would.

Interviewer: Yeah, I would too.

Dr. Madsen: But every one of these injuries we saw this year were people who were getting hurt riding the scooter. Most of these were orthopedic injuries, people injuring their arms, their legs. I suspect what's happening is people are running into trouble on the scooter. Maybe they hit a rock or a curb. They jump off. They're going 15 miles an hour. They try and stop themselves, but you just cannot run fast enough to keep up at that speed, so you're going to fall. And these were broken ankles, dislocated ankles, dislocated/broken wrists, elbows, shoulders, all sorts of orthopedic injuries. Some of these were very serious, where they had to go to the operating room.

We even saw some very serious head injuries as well. Interestingly, when people were asked, "Were you wearing a helmet," I didn't see any cases where anyone said yes. And several people said they were intoxicated while they were on the scooter.

Interviewer: Yeah. That's what I was wondering too. So how many of the accidents are actually intoxicated related versus just somebody who maybe was riding faster than their ability? Because these are new, right?

Dr. Madsen: Yes.

Interviewer: And they do go fast. It would be easy to outride your skill level at this point.

Dr. Madsen: Oh, it absolutely would. So of these, I would say about 20% said they were intoxicated.

Interviewer: Okay.

Dr. Madsen: So a decent number, but, you know, not the majority.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Dr. Madsen: But you're exactly right. I think of someone like myself, because most of these injuries were people between the ages of 20 and 50. And for someone like myself, I haven't personally been on a scooter in probably 20 years, and it didn't have a motor on it. So you figure I'm just going to jump on the scooter. It can go 15 miles an hour. You can imagine how you could run into trouble, try and swerve around someone or hit a curb or a rock, and you could run into trouble pretty quickly at that speed.

Interviewer: Yeah. So it sounds like that the solution maybe to this is slow down a little bit. It is good to know that it's not people getting hit, because that would be my fear as a pedestrian.

Dr. Madsen: Exactly.

Interviewer: I would, yeah. So if you're riding the scooter, slow it down. Make sure you're not riding above your skill level, and then also look out. Realize you've got, you know, there's other people there.

Dr. Madsen: Yeah. That's exactly right. My recommendation is take a few minutes just to get comfortable with the scooter. Practice turning on it, getting on and off. These things go 15 ...

Interviewer: Braking.

Dr. Madsen: Braking. Yeah, exactly. I mean they go 15 miles an hour. That's as fast as you ride on a bike.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Dr. Madsen: And wear a helmet.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Dr. Madsen: That's the other thing too. If this is part of your daily commute, you ride tracks, you catch a scooter, you go to work a mile away, bring a helmet in your backpack. Put the helmet on. It can make a big difference if you do fall off and hit your head. You'd wear a helmet on a bike. You should wear one on a scooter as well.

Announcer: Have a question about a medical procedure? Want to learn more about a health condition? With over 2,000 interviews with our physicians and specialists, there's a pretty good chance you'll find what you want to know. Check it out at thescoperadio.com.

Interviewer: "Lawn Mower Safety, Protecting Against the Expected and Unexpected." Dr. Troy Madsen is an emergency room physician, and based on what you see, what safety precautions should people take while mowing the lawn?

Dr. Madsen: Some of the more common injuries we see come from rocks. Be sure you're wearing close-toed shoes, pants that cover your lower legs, eye protection. Also, if it's your kids that are out there mowing the lawn, look around for any obvious rocks on the lawn. Make sure they know where the sprinkler heads are.

And then, the crazy stuff we sometimes see are finger injuries. People reach under the lawn mower while it's still running, or, they turn the lawn mower off, try and pull some wet grass out from there, and the blade will flip, even though the mower is off, and cause severe finger injuries.

So make sure you take some precautions. Make sure your kids know what to watch out for to prevent a visit to the ER.

updated: August 9, 2021
originally published: June 6, 2017

Interviewer: What are some of the common things that an emergency room physician sees after somebody wrecks their bike? I'm talking about a bicycle. That's next on The Scope.

Announcer: This is From the Frontlines, with emergency room physician Dr. Troy Madsen on The Scope.

Interviewer: Dr. Troy Madsen's an emergency room physician at University of Utah Health and I know this is kind of a broad question, but after somebody wrecks their bike, what are some common injuries that you see as a result of that in maybe hopes that we can prevent those from happening in the first place?

Dr. Madsen: Well, you know, it's a great question because springtime's right around the corner. Hopefully, it will get here soon. I keep telling myself it's almost here. But when springtime arrives, we started to see lots of bicycle-related injuries and it covers the full spectrum everything from scrapes, bumps, and bruises to serious, life-threatening injuries. So probably the most common thing we see are lacerations, people falling off their bike, getting in accidents, they cut their chin, their head, their arm, their elbow. We see fractures, lots of forearm fractures, people falling off bikes after accidents that come down on an outstretched hand or outstretched arm and break their forearm.

The most serious things we see are head injuries and these can be really serious injuries. Certainly, wearing a helmet is one of the best things you can do to prevent a head injury. But in terms of head injuries, we'll see bleeding in the head, certainly see facial fractures, nose fractures, things like that.

Interviewer: Let's go back and cover a couple of those. So let's start with head injuries since that's the most serious. So wearing a helmet, definitely good, can reduce the chance that you're going to get a head injury, can reduce the severity, I would imagine. Do you find though that people wearing a helmet sometimes think they're a little bulletproof and take bigger chances so the helmets can actually cause problems?

Dr. Madsen: Great question. I think that's probably true to some degree.

Interviewer: Sure.

Dr. Madsen: I think maybe people sometimes overestimate the value of a helmet. It's going to help but again, just think of your helmet as just a big piece of Styrofoam, essentially. It's going to cushion that fall but it's, you know, we will absolutely see cases of very serious head injuries in people who are wearing helmets.

Interviewer: Yeah. So you probably should pretend like you just don't have it even though you do.

Dr. Madsen: Sure.

Interviewer: You know, ride that is. So is there anything you can do to avoid head injuries if you got the helmet on? Anything you can watch out for beforehand?

Dr. Madsen: Well, the most serious injuries we see on bicycles are people who get hit by cars. So, you know, there's the whole defensive driving thing. You got to ride defensively as well. And you really, and I know, bicyclists know this and do this, but you absolutely to just expect the worse from the cars around you, expect they're going to run stop lights and stop signs, expect they're going to turn into you as they're making a right turn and you're coming up on the right side. Just expect it's going to happen.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Dr. Madsen: And personally, having, you know, previously ridden my bike to work, I can say it seemed like I saw everything and how many close calls were there, and I think every cyclist knows that. So you kind of have to expect it and watch for it and really be on the defensive.

Interviewer: Yeah, anticipate those things. What about, you know, you said arm injuries, people put their arms out. Is there a better way to fall?

Dr. Madsen: I wish I could say there was, but there's probably not.

Interviewer: You don't what it is. Okay.

Dr. Madsen: There's really not. That's probably your best option because you figure the other alternative would be just to come straight down on your side, you know, then that increases the risk of head injury when you do hit your side. Other things we see are a pneumothorax, where people will break a rib that punctures a lung, releasing air. That can be a much more serious thing. So, probably, that forearm injury is the best injury you can walk away with in that kind of generic. If you're coming down that hard.

Interviewer: Got you. And when do you know if it's bad enough to go to the ER?

Dr. Madsen: Well, you know, head injuries, if you've lost consciousness that's a reason to go to the ER. If you're having nausea or vomiting afterward, confusion, definitely reasons to go to the ER. Certainly, any injury in your legs where you can't bear weight, that's a reason to get checked out, get an X-ray. And then the forearm injuries, you know, usually, you're going to see a decent amount of swelling or some sort of deformity if it's broken. So again, reason to go to the ER and get checked out. Lacerations, if it's something that you're not comfortable just putting a Band-Aid on. If it's something where the edges are gaping open, you're probably going to need some stitches, again, ER or urgent care would be able to handle that.

Announcer: Have a question about a medical procedure? Want to learn more about a health condition? With over 2,000 interviews with our physicians and specialists, there’s a pretty good chance you’ll find what you want to know. Check it out at TheScopeRadio.com.

Dr. Miller: Rest, ice, and stretching are not the only ways to repair tendon injuries. We're going to talk about some of the new treatments next on Scope Radio.

Announcer: Access to our experts with in-depth information about the biggest health issues facing you today. The Specialists with Dr. Tom Miller is on The Scope.

Dr. Miller: Hi, I'm Dr. Tom Miller and I'm here with Nick Monson. He's a physician here at the University of Utah in the Department of Orthopedics. He's a non-operative physician and he specializes in sports medicine. Nick, what's the story? I understand there are some new treatments out there to help with folks who have tendon injuries that have become chronic.

Dr. Monson: Well, one of the things that we've been really looking at over the last decade or two is the usage of ultrasound and the ability to find issues within tendons or joints or different areas of the body by an in-office imaging modality which is ultrasound, kind of like looking at babies. But now, rather than just looking at babies, you can actually look in and see a tendon. Then, what you can do is you find that area of pathology or the area of irritation within a tendon. You can actually see it with the ultrasound, which makes it much easier for us to actually find approaches to attack that area of issue in patients.

The areas develop typically from overuse. It also happens because tendons just notoriously don't have a great blood supply to them, and blood is what brings the healing factors to our body. So when you don't have that healing component coming to the tendon, it has a hard time healing. That's the way that we've addressed it.

Dr. Miller: So how do you use the ultrasound to guide treatment? And what are these treatments that you're using now?

Dr. Monson: Yeah. So one option is something called PRP, platelet-rich plasma. There's also another treatment option which is in the same family, which is called stem-cell therapy. These are both areas of a lot of excitement. The research on them is still forthcoming. In the orthopedic usage of it, or in the tendon issues, we've seen that it does seem to provide benefit for patients. It's a discussion I have with them. It's not always the perfect option. But for a lot of patients, it's something that we can offer where, ultimately, it involves a blood draw.

We take the blood off of a patient. We spin that blood down. We take the healing components of that blood and actually reinject that into the tendon under visualization of ultrasound so we can find that area that looks like it's irritated or has the issue. We directly inject into that area using that PRP injecdate that we've harvested from the patient by a blood draw. Then we can stimulate regrowth of the tendon as the theoretical purpose of it. But often, what it seems to do is cause the inflammatory reaction in the area, or it just kind of stimulates the healing in the area, and has provided a lot of relief for our patients.

Dr. Miller: Which tendons do you usually look at when you consider this therapy, or which tendons do you most frequently treat?

Dr. Monson: It can be done on any tendon that there is noted pathology in. So if you see an area of issue, it can be done in just about any tendon. Tendons that we typically think of, of having frequent issues are the shoulder, so the rotator cuff. We think about tennis elbow, so that's on the outside of the elbow. Golfer's elbows, on the inside of the elbow. We'll do it there. We see it in knees, particularly for people that have something called jumper's knee which is at the tendon of the knee. Achilles' tendon. Even in like the plantar fascia, this can be done.

Dr. Miller: These tendon injuries, they're not short-term injuries. Would these be folks that have chronic problems with the tendons that would be over weeks or months, perhaps?

Dr. Monson: Certainly. Yeah. Yeah. So that's usually, somebody will come to see me. They have a new injury, we'll work them through the things that we have the best evidence for, what we know works. Things like rest, avoiding aggravating activities, pain modification, medications. Then also, eccentric exercises are very important. We have good research showing that those are helpful.

Dr. Miller: What are eccentric exercises?

Dr. Monson: Yeah, so those are the exercises where the muscle is fired but it's actually lengthening at the same time. So we're lengthening a tendon and muscle unit while there is force.

Dr. Miller: Well, for stretching.

Dr. Monson: Yes, correct.

Dr. Miller: Okay. So how do you use the ultrasound to guide your therapy?

Dr. Monson: So the ultrasound, first of all, identifies the lesion. So then I know exactly where I need to go. The second thing you can do is the ultrasound will actually, if I place a needle into a patient, I can follow the course of the needle the entire time. I can see the surrounding nerves. I can see the surrounding blood vessels and I know exactly where I'm at. First of all, it's very effective for safety or avoiding those structures that we don't want to hit. But second of all, it helps us target very directly where we want to be within a tendon and make sure that we're in the correct spot.

Dr. Miller: Now, I'm assuming before you enter, you have a patient undergo this type of treatment, you have gone through the standard therapy. So they've gone through a physical therapy. They've done the stretching. They've done the icing, and they're just not getting results.

Dr. Monson: Correct. There's one other procedure that we've added to this as well. It's a needle procedure as well. So that means that it's not done in an operating room, but it is done in a procedure room where we, again, identify that area of concern. We're able to use a specialized needle tip that it pulsates at the very tip of it very quickly, about 17,000 times per second.

Dr. Miller: That's fast.

Dr. Monson: We're talking about a millimeter of movement. Yeah, it's fast. It's not a lot of movement. It's enough that it actually, you think of it as kind of pulverizing the tissue in there. It's emulsifying the tissue is the term that we use. It's the same technology that cataract doctors, or eye doctors, use to remove cataracts out of patients. It breaks up the tissue, removes it from the body, and then leaves the healthy tissue around it. This is a newer treatment, probably in about the last five years that this one's been out. For the same tendon issues that we just talked about, this is another treatment option for patients that's been very promising so far.

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