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Interviewer: Wave therapy for erectile dysfunction. We're going to learn more about that today, including what is it and are all wave therapy machines created equal. Dr. John Smith is a urologist at University of Utah Health.

So I've heard of this thing called wave therapy for erectile dysfunction. Can you tell me a little bit how that works? What's going on?

Dr. Smith: Yeah. So the wave therapy machines, there's a few different types and we'll get more into that later. But the idea is, these machines put off a wave similar to like an ultrasound machine where there's a wave coming out of the machine and those waves are meant to help stimulate the tissue for regrowth of blood vessels is what you hear a lot of times on a lot of the advertisements.

And that's what a lot of the research has been shown to do is as these machines are used, that it causes the body to have an increase in the factors that cause regrowth of blood vessels and that's how they work.

Interviewer: All right. And how does that help somebody who is suffering from erectile dysfunction?

Dr. Smith: So a lot of times with erectile dysfunction, you know, it can be as simple as, you know, the blood flow issues. It can be not enough going in, too much going out, those types of things. But a lot of times these wave machines will help to regrow or regrow blood vessels to help more blood go into the penis. Because the erection is pretty much the two chambers on the top of the corporate cavernosa get filled with blood. They become very erect, they become stiff and rigid and that's what gives a good quality erection. And so the more blood flow you have and the more quality blood flow you have, the better quality erections you have.

Interviewer: So individuals that have erectile dysfunction, some of them, it might be because they're not getting enough blood flow. So the sound waves, if I'm correct on this wave machine, actually it helps stimulate more blood vessels. You get more blood in there and then it's just hydraulics. You fill that up and you get a better, more sustainable erection.

Dr. Smith: There's couple of different types of machines and you mentioned sound waves. The most of the literature has been done on the mechanical wave, more of the ESWL machines, a similar type wave that they use to break up kidney stones.

However, there's multiple types of machines. Some of the machines do use acoustic waves or sound waves versus these mechanical waves to do it. And the research has been done with the mechanical wave machines, which have been shown to do a lot more. And the acoustic wave machines haven't really shown to be super beneficial in the research.

Interviewer: So an acoustic wave-like when you get super close to a speaker and you can feel the vibrations, is that what we're talking about with those machines?

Dr. Smith: Similar, yeah. It's an acoustic style wave machine, whereas a mechanical type wave machine uses more of a mechanical pulse wave similar to like I said, breaking up a kidney stone with the shock wave. So they'll call that a shockwave treatment versus the acoustic treatment. And the shockwave treatment has been the one with a lot of the research done over in Europe and other parts of the world to show improvement in regrowth of blood vessels.

Interviewer: So not all wave machines for treating erectile dysfunction are created equal. Now, how do you know the difference? How would a consumer know which machine they're getting when they show up?

Dr. Smith: You would want to be very, you know, you'd want to ask the right questions. What type of machine do you have? There's quite a few different types of machines. And, you know, you'll hear a lot of different things from different people, but the acoustic machines, if you look at the research and actually looked up the studies, the studies have been done with the shock wave machines.

And the shock wave is not new, it's been around for quite a bit of time. It started with kidney stones, where they used to put people in a big bathtub to break up kidney stones. And now they have handheld units with this shockwave therapy and it's actually used quite a bit and is FDA approved in the sports medicine arena for things like plantar fasciitis and other issues that way.

And it's still experimental and not FDA approved for erectile dysfunction, but it is being used for erectile dysfunction as kind of an off-label use because there has been good data that shows increased growth, increased rejuvenation, or neovascularization where there's new blood flow in the area.

Interviewer: And what kind of wave machine does University of Utah Health have?

Dr. Smith: We just actually got a new wave machine and it is the shockwave machine. We made sure we did as much research as we could, knowing that this is kind of a hot topic. A lot of people are very interested. And I get asked about it quite a bit.

And so, in the men's health department, we had a lot of patients who came in and asked quite a bit about it so we did the best research that we could to find a machine that could possibly give us the best benefit.

Now we're very selective with our patients at the University of Utah, for who we would recommend this to because it's not covered by insurance, it's relatively expensive. And again, you have to pick the right folks in order to get a good result. For someone who has a mild erectile dysfunction, someone who's taking pills and doing rather well with them, they may be able to come off the pills completely or need a lower dosage of the pills.

This isn't for someone who has a severe erectile issue after they've had a surgical procedure like a prostatectomy or something like that. It's not going to give them their erectile function back in those instances. This is for a very mild to mild-moderate erectile dysfunction. Those are the people who've really seen a benefit from this machine.

Now, if someone really wanted to say, hey, can you do it? We could do it, but I would very much caveat that to this likely is not going to help you.

And that's really the biggest thing for me is making sure that patients understand the expectations because this is not an FDA-approved treatment for erectile dysfunction yet. However, in the future, it may be as long as the research continues to look promising.

Interviewer: And after those treatments, you said you continue to monitor the patient to see how things go. Generally, are there a lot of follow-ups after that or once the treatments are done and those new blood vessels have grown, generally they survive pretty well and things work out?

Dr. Smith: So depending on the patient's medical history, but a lot of times, right now, we're still working out our protocols because this is relatively new that we have this machine. But again, you know, a lot of these folks, if they're rather healthy individuals who may have just had a blood flow issue, you know, they should be good and it should continue to be beneficial for them for a duration of time.

For folks who may have other medical problems, like people who are diabetics, who are going to have vascular issues, people with cardiovascular disease who are going to continue to have progression of those things over time, those would be people who are going to continue to follow up with us and make sure that, you know, things continue to stay well.

Interviewer: If somebody is having success with the pills, why would they choose the wave machine? Why are people choosing to come off the pills?

Dr. Smith: That's a long discussion that I have with patients, because the big thing is, is people are always looking for the easy, quick fix. And a lot of times the advertisements that they've heard make the wave therapy seem like a quick fix. And, you know, with the shockwave therapy, it can be beneficial, but again, a lot of these people don't understand that, you know, sometimes they may not be a good candidate or it may not be beneficial for them.

So after that discussion, a lot of them will continue with the pills, knowing, you know, the cost of the procedure is relatively, it's not covered by insurance so it costs a little bit more than everything else.

But the main people who will come in and just say, I want to get off of pills, I don't like taking pills, and if there's any possible way I can not have to take pills or not have to do that because erectile dysfunction pills can be somewhat cumbersome. If you have to take them an hour before sex on an empty stomach that can be kind of less spontaneous or, you know, other things, if you've had side effects to the medication, those would be the people who would generally look for another alternative.

I would talk with a professional. Talk with them, ask the right questions. What kind of machine is this? What can I expect? And look at the literature, you don't have to be a scientist to be able to look at it and see, but look at what's been done. And there is some good information out there about it but the shockwave machine has been the one that's shown the most promise of being able to improve erectile dysfunction. I would just say, make sure you're getting what you think you're getting.

Interviewer: Erectile dysfunction can cause stress, self-confidence, and relationship problems, but making sure that you get the right treatment specific to your situation is important as well.

And that's why we've got Dr. John Smith, he's a urologist at University of Utah Health, on The Scope with us today. I wanted to talk to Dr. Smith about if a patient comes in with erectile dysfunction, what are some of the things that you do, what are some of the things you look at? But I think the first thing, Dr. Smith, that I do want to talk to you about is it seems like there's kind of this thought that maybe men are still embarrassed to go talk to their doctor about erectile dysfunction and any tips for overcoming that.

Dr. Smith: You know what, just it's okay. It happens. If you really look at it, I would say, in my practice doing men's health at the university, that's a majority of what I see. So you're in a majority, not a minority when you come to my clinic.

Interviewer: Yeah. I think another thing to keep in mind too is it's a lot of things that could cause erectile dysfunction, I mean, from physical to mental. So it's not necessarily like any sort of personal thing. It's not about you. It's a system. It's a complicated system, and that's one of the things that I want to get to today. So what are some of the causes?

Dr. Smith: So there's quite a few things. Some medical conditions can cause it. Diabetes is one that's well known. Gentlemen who've had prostate cancer and had treatment for that is another common one. Another probably less commonly known one is, you know, having stress in your life, whether it be at work, at home, relationship issues. The complexity of life can kind of get at you sometimes and wreak havoc on your body's libido and erections.

And sometimes its underlying medical conditions we don't know about. So we mentioned diabetes and prostate cancer that's been treated, but some folks with underlying, you know, cardiovascular problems that they don't know that they're there may also have a sudden onset of erectile dysfunction that could be kind of a harbinger of other things.

Interviewer: Yeah, that's interesting. So erectile dysfunction could be a symptom of, like you said, a lot of other just physical conditions we've all heard about before. So if somebody is experiencing erectile dysfunction and they come into your clinic, what does that visit look like? How do you try to figure out the best treatment for that individual?

Dr. Smith: So I bring folks in and we sit down and we start to have a conversation. I like to get a nice history of, you know, what's gone on, if they have past medical problems, and kind of also get kind of their social situation, what's going on relationship-wise and other things in their life, you know, work-wise, see and look at the whole individual and see, you know, kind of what could be causing this issue. And if we can put our finger on something specific, like they've been a diabetic for quite some time and this has been a long time coming, you know, that's one thing, or if they come in and it's just kind of a sudden onset thing, where stress, you know, went up in their life and they just noticed kind of a more sudden onset and kind of get a real feel for what brings them in and what kind of things we can do to help them. I like to get a testosterone on folks that come in to make sure that there isn't some kind of an endocrine issue going on as well as make sure, with my history and physical exam, that there may not be some other underlying condition that may be, you know, more problematic.

Interviewer: What's the next step in treatment? Obviously, if there's an underlying condition, the first goal would be to treat those underlying conditions. I'd imagine you want to make sure that those are taken care of. But what's the next step at that point?

Dr. Smith: For a lot of folks, you know, exercise can increase erections. You know, diet and exercise can be a great improvement for some folks who may have a few extra pounds and who may not be as active as they once were. That can help boost testosterone levels and also just kind of help them in general. If that's something that, you know, they're not really keen on or they're already doing and they're still having erectile dysfunction, you know, sometimes we'll trial medication to see how that can help them to have maybe a little bit more confidence or help their erections to be of a higher caliber or quality.

Interviewer: What types of medications are available? I mean, we've all heard of the one, right? Are there other types that do something different?

Dr. Smith: So in the class of drugs like the little blue pill that we've heard of so much, many of them have gone generic now. So the Viagra now is generic as sildenafil and Cialis is now generic as tadalafil. There's also Levitra, which was hot on the market for some time. That's also known as vardenafil. Those have all gone generic and have become quite inexpensive as treatment options. And there is some differences between those medications that we kind of go over with patients to make sure that we're getting them the right medication if that's the course that we go to.

Interviewer: Other than pills, are there things that you do for treatment options before you think surgery?

Dr. Smith: Of course, of course. There's multiple of different things we can do up until surgery. There's constrictive devices. The layman's term would be a cock ring. That can help people who are able to get an erection, but have difficulty maintaining it because that's part of the erectile pathway as well. If they have what we call venous leak, where their penis is letting out more blood than is coming in, you can lose that erection. And so sometimes those constrictive rings can really help during sexual intercourse. You can't leave that on for an elongated period of time. You use it during your sexual encounter, and then it's got to come off so it doesn't damage the tissue surrounding it because of the pressure. But that's one thing that we can do if we suspect a venous leak. That's why a thorough history and physical and understanding what's going on with a patient's erections, when they come in, can kind of lead us down a path to treat them with that rather than medicine.

Interviewer: What if the problem that is causing the erectile dysfunction is more of a mental issue? First of all, what types of mental issues kind of get in the way of that? And then what would you do to help somebody with that?

Dr. Smith: So one of the things is we call it psychogenic erectile dysfunction, where physiologically there's absolutely nothing wrong with the patient, but they're having difficulty with an erection. And I've seen this quite a bit with a few different types of patients. Someone who's been in a new relationship or had something like that, where they've had difficulty with their performance say, that can kind of ruin their psyche and kind of gets you down and then they have problems continuing. Another one that's fairly common is once people have started to try to conceive children, when sex kind of becomes a job at that point, sometimes I've seen men who kind of have difficulty with an erection because now it's not a spontaneous thing or it wasn't as fun as it used to be. Then I'll see them come in and say, "You know, I've had some trouble. We've been trying to have a kid for six months. It's been difficult, and I'm just, you know, a little short on the confidence thing, where this has kind of become more of a job than anything else."

Interviewer: And then ultimately, when a patient leaves, will they be coming back at some point then?

Dr. Smith: I generally say, "Here's the medication. We'll start with a dose." And I usually let them titrate the dose up or down depending on if they need additional medication within safe limits. And then I bring them back within, you know, a few months to make sure that that medication is effective, because if it's a not, I want them to know that we can look at other avenues and options to make sure that we can take care of their erectile dysfunction.

Interviewer: So the ultimate message is that if somebody is experiencing ED, that there is a solution for it. You can help in most cases.

Dr. Smith: Seven out of ten men will do well with just pills alone and, you know, beyond that, we can help them with other avenues as need be. So there is hope we can definitely help folks to get to their goals.

Interviewer: Are there times that you decide with a patient not to treat it because it just ultimately doesn't matter? Like they come there because they think that it is a problem, but ultimately, they're just kind of like, "Well, I really don't care."

Dr. Smith: Yeah. I've seen that, not too often. I mean, it's mostly older patients who may be like post-prostatectomy, who come in and they're not partnered anymore. They're, you know, either a widower or they're divorced. They don't have a partner. And it's like, "Why am I going to give you pills that may give you a headache or flushing, or, you know, those types of things when I don't really need an erection at this point?"

Interviewer: Yeah. Got you.

Dr. Smith: So those aren't as common. But I think some guys, when they come in, the younger guys as well, but they usually want a pill as kind of the ace in the hole to have in their back pocket so that it gives them a little confidence, to be honest.

Interviewer: Well, yeah. I mean, there's something to be said for that, right? They might not even never need to take it.

Dr. Smith: Oh, I've had tons of guys come in that are psychogenic erectile dysfunction, who come in, you know, in their 20s and 30s, who there's not a darn thing physiologically wrong with them. They have no underlying medical conditions. They go to the gym all the time. They're otherwise healthy. It's just they had that one sexual encounter and it didn't work, and now it's never going to work again.

Interviewer: But then you've got that pill. At least, you know that if worse comes to worse and that pill and you might not even need it.

Dr. Smith: Yeah. Well, and that pill potentiates things. I mean, once you get an erection, that pill will help you keep it. And that's the whole point of the pill. And so those guys totally, you know, it's total placebo, but not at the same time, if that makes sense.