Search for tag: "hey"

Dr. Chan: What's it like being a star on reality TV? How do you apply all of your non-traditional pre-med life experiences towards a medical school application? On this episode of "Talking U and Med Student Life," hear from first-year med student Alan's story and inspiration towards becoming a doctor and how he balances his studies, work-life, and family all while here at the University of Utah School of Medicine.

Welcome to another edition of "Talking U and Med Student Life." I've got a fantastic guest today. Alan, how are you doing?

Alan: Really good. How are you doing?

Dr. Chan: I'm doing okay. Hanging in there. Lots going on. And we'll talk about it a little bit. And Alan you're a first-year student, correct?

Alan: Correct.

Dr. Chan: Correct. All right. So and we were kind of talking about it earlier, but you know, first-year med student during a pandemic. I'm sure we'll get into the details, Alan, but I want to hear your story. Let's go back to the beginning. When did you start thinking med school? Let's talk about kind of your journey that got you to this point.

Alan: So I think it's important for everybody to know that I'm an older student, I'm 41, so my pathway to medicine took a little bit. I think it kind of started . . . I've always kind of wanted to do something important for society. I've always wanted to be like this really key cog, making a difference in the world.

And so my dad was a construction worker. My mom, she grew up in the Philippines. She has like a fifth or sixth-grade education. It wasn't really in the books. My dad was a construction worker, became a prison guard, and I didn't find out till my 20s that my dad had a degree. And I asked him why and he didn't really like it. He didn't care about it. He didn't find importance in going to school and education. He felt like his degree didn't help him at all. It's just a waste of his time.

So just medical school was like never . . . it wasn't that it was that I couldn't be a doctor, but that just wasn't the path that was for me. That was for people that were naturally gifted or wealthy or any of those things that just kind of wasn't in the works for me. That's just kind of the vibe that I grew up with.

So I went to school, did terrible, and then I left and this was like back in '97. I left and decided I'm just going to go into construction. And I worked my way up, and I said I'm going make a difference in construction. I'm going to be part of this important cog of a society. And I started building elevators because I felt elevators were so important. It's going to be such a good career. And, you know, with time it kind of grew stale with me.

Dr. Chan: Is this in Utah, Alan? Did you grow up in Utah? Where's this going on?

Alan: I grew up in San Diego. This is San Diego.

Dr. Chan: San Diego. Okay.

Alan: Yeah. So can I tell a funny story?

Dr. Chan: Sure, go ahead. We are all about funny stories.

Alan: So I went to this urgent care and I just needed this little procedure done and the doctor there was this kind of older white guy from South Africa. And when we're going through the procedure, it was so unprofessional. He's coughing on me. He definitely had a cold. There's no question he had a cold. He wasn't wearing a mask. He's coughing and he's cussing and he's talking to me about American politics and capitalism and all this other stuff. And we get about three-quarters way through the procedure and he says, "Okay, I got to step out for a second. I've got to go Google to make sure I'm getting all the right nerves." And he walks out.

And I'm going, "Oh my gosh, did my doctor just say, 'I got to go Google . . . I got to go Google how to figure out how to do this'"? He walks back in, he finishes the procedure, and I sound like I'm really talking bad about the guy. It was a really unprofessional experience, but it was fun. He was really relatable. And the procedure went fine. It was fine. Like there was no complications. There was minimal scarring. It was fine. And I left there going, you know, if that guy can do it, I can do it.

And this is kind of like in my mid to late 30s. This is the first time in my life I had ever learned that doctors were real people, that, you know, they don't know everything, that sometimes they have to check on things, and that as funny as it is and as weird as it was, that was a really good experience for me to learn that I could be a doctor. And I still kind of felt like I was a little old, so it still took a little more convincing. And then, yeah the, "Wipeout" experience and kind of all history from there. Should I talk about that?

Dr. Chan: Yeah. So when did this doctor experience happen? Like in the 2000s or when did this go down?

Alan: So I was probably about 35-ish. So we're talking maybe six years ago around there. Six, seven years ago.

Dr. Chan: So you had to go back to school. And so what was that process like? What did that look like for you?

Alan: So I still hadn't quite made that decision yet. So can I jump into "Wipeout"? Is that okay?

Dr. Chan: Sure. Let's talk about "Wipeout." I love it. Let's get all the stories out. I love it.

Alan: Well, this is all part of the journey. And so I got injured in high school. My shoulder was just in shot. I couldn't sleep on it. I couldn't throw a ball. I saw a doctor. He said it would heal. It never healed. And so I just, okay, 20 years, I'm just going to live with the shoulder and I did. That was going to be my new life, just the shoulder that didn't work.

Then I was on this TV show called "Wipeout" where I just got wrecked. I got hurt so bad, and my shoulder was wasted. The very first round, we ended up going through and we won. It was a really cool experience. But by the end of the show, my shoulder was done. I couldn't use it. I couldn't lift anything. So this is 20 years after the original injury, 20 years of like just can't sleep, thinking that my life is going to be messed up forever.

And I go get surgery, and after surgery, I would say probably within three months, my shoulder was mostly there within six months, 100% like before high school. All the strength was back. This whole part of my life that I thought was gone was restored. I thought it was gone forever. I thought I would never teach my kid how to throw a ball. I mean, that really hurts a dad's feelings. And it was amazing. I didn't think that part of my life would ever come back.

And so now I have this experience where I know that I can be a doctor and now I have the strong desire to be a doctor. It was just like kind of a push over the edge later on. I just became very unsatisfied with how stale construction was getting for me and that was it, man. I took three years of undergrad schooling to get back, but I jumped ship and here I am.

Dr. Chan: I want to go back to "Wipeout." How did you get on that show? What's the audition process like? Did you have to like send in a video of you like jumping on things or jumping off the things and diving into large vats of liquid? I mean, how did that look like?

Alan: I actually applied, I think, three or four times. It looks so fun. It's not. It's a really good experience, but I wouldn't call it fun. But yeah, so they don't want athletes. They want people that can wipe out. They want people that can be on a TV show and not be afraid to look like a moron in front of millions of people. And I'm your guy. I am not afraid to look like a moron in front of millions of people.

So you just, you apply. You kind of show that you have a personality, that you're kind of larger than life. And I think that they liked that. I had applied many times, so I kind of learned what they're looking for. And then I found somebody who was a lot like me, just a knucklehead, and it was a team episode and we both got on.

They started asking us questions. They started asking us questions during the interview. We didn't really work together. The episode was like boss and employee, but he and I didn't really work together. We were both elevator guys, but he worked for a completely different company, but he had the personality that I wanted. So I called them beforehand when they invited me to do the audition. You have to do a written audition. Then they invite you to come to an in-person audition. And they said, "We want you to audition for this boss-employee episode." And I said, "Well, the guy that I'm going to audition with doesn't really work with me." And they said, "We don't care. Just make up some stories and we'll go with it."

Dr. Chan: Are you telling me reality TV isn't completely real? Is that what you're saying, Alan?

Alan: Yeah. You wouldn't think, right?

Dr. Chan: So were you the boss and he and employee or vice versa?

Alan: Yeah, we just did paper rock scissors on the way up. And so we were in San Diego. We had to drive to Burbank. It's like a two and a half-hour drive. And so we're just like, I don't know, who wants to be boss? I don't know. I'll be boss. So ended up I was boss, he was employee.

We go to the interview, and, you know, we're acting like knuckleheads and jumping around and make up these funny stories. And so the guy goes okay, "Okay, okay. Tell us a story that's really funny about you two guys working together." Remember we don't really work together, so I'm going, "Oh, shoot," but we had told a lot of stories. That's important, right? So then we finished the audition, and we go to the real show and the producer comes up and he says, "Okay, everybody I'm going to prod you guys to tell a certain story on camera." Anyways, anybody watching . . .

Dr. Chan: If we tell too many stories and it's hard to keep track of what's right . . . what was . . . to keep it consistent. Or do they not even care about consistency?

Alan: They don't care. They just want to laugh.

Dr. Chan: And so, okay. Because I've seen the show, what's the show like when the camera's off? Is it everyone relaxes, or it's just full-on everyone's in character? I mean, do they encourage wipeouts, I assume? I mean, do they encourage you to kind of put your life and body on the line.

Alan: Yeah. So that's a really good question. That kind of is one of the reasons that it's a really good experience. I wouldn't call it fun. So the first round is the one that we love to watch, where everybody is like getting hurt and that one's controlled by people. They're like pushing buttons. So you're going to wipe out. You know you're going to get a hit, so you take a hit.

But then when you're not on camera, you're kind of in the trailer in the back lot and you just sit there and nobody's like really excited. Some people are already hurt in between rounds. Everybody's for the most part friendly. There's a few people. I go back and watch that episode. I'm like, oh, that guy was a jerk. I'm so glad he lost. Oh, man. But yeah, there's a lot of downtime.

During one of our episodes, they were filming an episode for "The Bachelors," I guess like the bachelors and bachelorettes, that TV show. They did an episode of "Wipeout," and so they were filming the same day we were filming, and so on that day we weren't allowed to come out of our trailer. They didn't want us to look at them or see them or whatever.

Dr. Chan: Or spoil it for the masses about who made it, the rose ceremony. Yeah.

Alan: Speaking of reality TV, I don't watch "The Bachelor" or "Bachelorette," but I made an excuse that I had to go to the bathroom. And you have to leave the trailer to go the bathroom, and the bachelors were coming out and there was one girl, I guess, that she was really like high drama on the show. And so now there's no cameras rolling, this is just people walking to the trailer. Everybody's exhausted. Everybody's hurt. There's no cameras. And I hear this girl going, "I don't even know, like, this is so stupid. I don't even know why I'm here. I don't need this. I've got more publicity than this. I don't need this show and I don't need these people." And she's the blah, blah, blah, and I have no idea who she is.

So when the season like actually ran, when it aired, I went back and watched and I guess she was like a high drama person on camera and I can tell you off-camera she was also a high drama person. She ran half the course and quit and then, yeah, walked off the show.

Dr. Chan: Wow. So Alan, how far did you make it on "Wipeout," and what's the secret if myself or any of our listeners want to do well in "Wipeout"? How far did you go and get, and what's your secret to success to win this?

Alan: Oh, my gosh. I hope you go, Dr. Chan. I hope you go.

Dr. Chan: It's on the bucket list. Might not get to it to be quite honest.

Alan: The secret is to not be afraid. You're going to get hurt. Know they're going to hurt you and you got to take the hit. You got to take the hit and keep going. When you're watching the show, it's each event is like three, four, five minutes long. When you're doing the show, the events are like 30 minutes long. They're really aggressive. People are yelling at each other, cussing at each other. You got to remember, this is like Hollywood. This isn't Provo, right? So they're really letting each other have it.

The staff is yelling at the contestants. It's pretty aggressive. So you got to have thick skin and you just got to keep going. You're exhausted. You're swimming fully clothed with your shoes, life jacket for 30 minutes. It's really hard. So you just got to be the type of person who's going to take the hit, who's going push through it, who's not going to get upset.

There was one person. She did take an injury, but I think the stress was getting to her and she was like, "I need to stop. I need to stop. I'm hurt. I need to stop. We just need to stop." And they're like, "We are not stopping. If you want to stop, you're getting in an ambulance." "I need to stop. I need to stop." Boom. Pulled her, yanked her, put her in the ambulance, and took her out.

So yeah, it's a high-stress environment, but push through, be willing to take a hit, and might win some money.

Dr. Chan: Yeah. So how far did you get, Alan?

Alan: We won. So we won our episode. It was me and my partner. We won 25 grand each. And then they had another episode where the champions of each episode come back and compete again. I can tell you right now, I knew all the champions. I saw the champions. I met all the champions in the trailer on a different day, and nobody wanted to come back to that episode. Everybody was hurt. People are hobbling around. People's arms are in like wraps. Everybody's hurt, nobody wants to come back, but all of us were afraid that if we didn't come back, we wouldn't get paid for winning our previous episode. So most of us came back, like 9 out of 10 of us came back, something like that. But it was a good experience. Happy I did it. Wouldn't do it again.

Dr. Chan: Sounds really traumatic behind the scenes. I don't know, like I've talked to other folks who've tried out for "Jeopardy" and "The Price is Right." Like this "Wipeout" sounds like it's yeah, it sounds really dangerous. It's not like those others. All right. So you mentioned kids. And so at the very beginning, you know, you said you're, you know, mid-thirties, early forties. So in the world of admissions, that makes you a non-traditional student. And like what was that like going back to school and doing your pre-med reqs with a family and how did you make that work? Again, what are your tips? What's the secret to your success?

Alan: That's a really good question, thanks. So I think first you have to accept the fact that life is going to change. A lot of people kind of want to go back to school and think I don't really want to disrupt my life, but that's not really an option especially if you want to get into medical school. There's a lot of requirements get into medical school, so you have to accept that your life is going to change. You're going to miss some things.

So, you know, you're going to miss some dance recitals. You're going to miss some cheer tryouts, whatever it's going to be. And so then you kind of have to be creative. And so one of the things that we did . . . oh, first of all, let me say this is the number one most important thing going back to school, especially going to medical school, is make sure your spouse is just as invested as you are or even more so, because every minute that I'm not home is a minute that she's alone with the kids. And so as much as on the surface, it looks like getting into med school is hard for me, it's probably harder for your spouse. So make sure they're totally invested in this whole goal.

So, but then going to school, like one of the creative things that I try to do to try to combine schooling with kids is I was going to BYU, and so what I would do is I would have my wife . . . I still wanted the one-on-one time with my kids, so I'd have my wife drop off a kid with me at school for about an hour, maybe two hours, and they would have alone time with dad and I would get them treats from the vending machines and we would just kind of talk.

And we would walk from building to building into these large . . . BYU has a lot of these large classrooms, and we would just kind of walk around these large classrooms and pick up all the pencils, all the mechanical pencils and highlighters and erasers and whatever that the students left behind that day. And then the kids were, you know, they'd walk off like 15, whatever.

Dr. Chan: Like a scavenger hunt. I love it.

Alan: Like a scavenger hunt. Yeah. The kids loved it. They were super excited. They got to have alone time with dad and I got to have time with them. And anyways, that was something we did. And you kind of have to make a lot of deals. I'm going to miss your cheer competition. To make it up for you, I'll give you some alone time on Saturday, and I'll take you to nickel arcade or we'll go on a date or whatever. So you got to be creative, but it's work and life is going to change for sure.

Dr. Chan: How many kids do you have, Alan, and what are their ages?

Alan: I barely have six kids, and my youngest is four years old. My oldest is 14, and they're every two years in between.

Dr. Chan: Okay. And I think that puts you, I think you have the most kids in medical school. I don't know of any other students that have six. Is that correct as far as you know?

Alan: As far as I know. I don't know if that's like something I want the trophy for.

Dr. Chan: All right. So you're going back to school, you're trying to find balance, you know, as a father, as a husband. As a pre-medical student, how did you do all . . . You mentioned BYU and classes, and there is an academic component to getting prepared for med school. But how did you do all the other activities, like the research and community service? How did you fit that into your busy schedule?

Alan: So one of the things that I think kind of is in the heads of these medical school students is we want to like see what other medical students have done. Like, oh man, you got into medical school, what did you do? And you start to try to build your résumé following the résumé of some successful students before you.

And I tried to do the same thing. That was kind of my mindset for my first year. And then during my second year, I had this opportunity to join the wrestling team. And I thought, well, you know, this is O Chem 1. Everybody says this is such a really hard time right now, and plus I have other hard classes as O Chem 1, Anatomy, and, oh gosh, I had a few other hard ones. And I said I can go and I could focus on studies and get an A or A-minus, whatever it's going to be, or I can follow my passion and wrestle and show the admissions committee who I really am and show them something they've never seen before.

I became like the second oldest person in history to ever qualify for the national championships, but I thought that that was more descriptive of who I am. And so that did cost my grades a little bit, but I decided at that point that my application would be a reflection of me, what I'm passionate about, and where I feel like I can make the biggest difference.

So when I was going out and volunteering and doing these extracurriculars, it didn't feel like I was taking time away from my family or taking time away from studies. It felt like I was developing me and showing the admissions committee who I really was.

I know that sounds really cheesy, but that's the absolute truth. And so I think my application looked very different than a lot of other students because I took that route.

Dr. Chan: And you mentioned the wrestling. So have you always been a wrestler, or where does that come from or is that something kind of came later in life?

Alan: So I was a wrestler in high school. I was a really good wrestler high school. BYU had a wrestling team back then, and they invited me to be on the NCAA team that they used to have back in '97, but they wouldn't give me a scholarship. And at the time their coach was this Olympic champion, Mark Schultz. And he called me on the phone and he says, he gives me a spot on the team. I had no idea that that was a big deal. I thought I was a stud. I thought I was going to, you know, go places with scholarships and whatever, and that's not the path for wrestlers.

So I ended up going to BYU, and I didn't take the spot that he offered me, so I had to fight for it. And there's a kid who came from Ricks College. This is like back before BYUI. This kid came from Ricks College. He had already wrestled two years of junior college, and he and I had to wrestle for the spot. Since I turned it down, we had to wrestle for it, and he kicked the snot out of me. He gave me the worst beating I ever had in my entire life.

He ended up winning the starting spot and going to the nationals, NCAA national. So he was a stud. But when I left BYU, I wrestled a couple of years of junior college, and then, yeah, so it was a 20-year gap. A 20-year gap between like, when I'd last wrestled in junior college and when I wrestled again at BYU.

Dr. Chan: So you're kind of the prodigal wrestler. You wrestled 20 years ago and then you came back and joined the same team. Am I understanding that correctly?

Alan: Oh, so yeah. So BYU, actually, I think I'm probably one of the only people that I was on the . . . well, I guess I wasn't on the team, so I turned my spot down, but I did wrestle with them back in '97 when they had a NCAA team and they closed the team and then I came back and wrestled for the club team and then they closed the club team. Either I have bad luck, or I don't know.

Dr. Chan: Wow. All right. So Alan, so you're finishing up your pre-med reqs, you're doing all the things you need to do. You have your large family, life is happening, and I think you're still working during this time too, right?

Alan: Yeah. So what I did is I couldn't afford to work like during the school year. So from September to whatever May, I just couldn't find the time to work, but I also couldn't take on the debt. I've got a mortgage. I've got to raise kids.

So what we did is the day that school . . . I would take my finals on like a Friday, and we bought a trailer and on Saturday morning I would have the trailer heading to San Francisco and I would spend the next four months in the San Jose, San Francisco area because they pay, I make about in one summer, I'll work 80 hours a week and I'll make triple there what I'll make here and they pay for all my expenses and everything like that.

So I'd go to San Francisco. I'd build elevators. And that would just be like hard, just 80 hours a week, Monday through Sunday. And then I would finish my workday on Saturday out there, pack up my trailer, boom, I'm back here for ready for school on Monday. So I didn't have a summer vacation, no breaks, no time to breathe, just boom, boom, boom. But, you know, that's what we had to do. It worked for us, but it was not free. It was a lot of work. Having eight people live in a trailer, that was a fun experience.

Dr. Chan: That's amazing. And so what was your strategy when you started looking at medical schools, like where did you want to apply? How did you approach this as, again, a non-traditional student with a lot of stuff on your plate? What was your strategy going in?

Alan: Okay. Number one, I don't have to kiss up to you. I'm already in. I don't have to kiss up to you. Number one was always Utah. That was always from the get-go, always number one. So all my GPA and everything that was always working to get the goal to go into Utah. If for some reason Utah didn't work out, I had to go somewhere where I could raise a family. Had to be affordable, had to be safe, had to have good schools.

As a matter of fact, there was one school . . . I kind of like, I applied wide. I applied DO-MD. I applied to like 40 schools. And then in one of the secondaries, I don't want to say the name, but one of the secondaries, it said, "Tell us why you want to come to our school." And so I Googled the area where the school's at and even like the surrounding area, I don't know why I applied. I thought it was going to be better than it was, and it just wasn't going to be a good place to raise my family. And I'm really glad they asked me to start with a secondary, because after looking at the map, after looking at the schools, after looking at the living conditions, I go like, "You know what, I actually don't want to go there." So I didn't fill out the application. Go ahead.

Dr. Chan: So you applied broadly, so 40 schools. And again, I can ask you this now, Alan, because like you're already in here, but like how many interview offers did you get?

Alan: So I got two MDs, and I got a lot of DOs. I felt like my story was very DO friendly. It's really important to point out that my GPA as a young undergrad was really, really bad, and I took a lot of classes and got bad grades in a lot of classes.

So when I came back to school, no matter how good I was doing and I did pretty well when I came back, but I couldn't get that GPA to come up. Like it just really wouldn't budge. So when I applied, my overall GPA was pretty low. Can I say that? I'm not ashamed of it. Can I say that?

Dr. Chan: Yeah, you can talk about it.

Alan: My overall GPA applying was 3.05, and the minimum for most schools was 3.0. So I took all hard sciences. All of my G's were done. I had nothing but hard sciences left. And so I ended up with like a 3.7, because you know, O Chem and cell bios is really a rough route. But so when I applied, I had to kind of like keep that in mind that my GPA was going to be a weed out.

So anyways, going back to your question, sorry to go on a tangent, but I ended up with two MDs and then I think like maybe six or seven DOs. But I also, thanks to you, I heard back from Utah early, and as soon as I heard back from Utah, I withdrew. And so maybe there's . . .

Dr. Chan: When you say "heard back," when I called and accepted you?

Alan: Yes. Sorry.

Dr. Chan: All right.

Alan: Yeah, go ahead.

Dr. Chan: Alan, with all your experiences, I'm just curious because . . . it's hard for me because I meet so many people. I do remember you on your interview day. I just remember you just had like a very positive energy, positive karma about you. I do remember you mentioning the "Wipeout" thing when we were doing like a little ice breaker.

So I'm curious, like, because you know, obviously, you've been on some TV shows, you've been a wrestler. So like, you know, you have some athletic experience. Did you have butterflies in your stomach? Like what was more anxiety-provoking, like being on reality TV, getting ready for that big match or interviewing for med school? Like how did you call that feeling? You know what I'm saying? Was it stressful or were you able to navigate? I'm just curious how you approached it.

Alan: There's no question med school was more nerve-wracking

Dr. Chan: Than being on reality TV show. Interesting.

Alan: Well, you know, okay. So before, Utah was my third interview. I don't want to say I did one . . . like I'll say because it's funny. Okay. So I did get invited to the DO down in St. George Rocky Vista, and I got an invite the day after I applied and I got invited to the very first day of interviews.

So I was so arrogant that, like, they really wanted me to go there. And then they sent me this email that said, just so you know, we accept 80% or 75% of all the students that get interviewed. So, you know, just because you're getting invited, know that you got a really good shot. And I was so arrogant. I didn't prepare. I was just so dumb. I walked in, I did the interview and I knew I blew it. I couldn't get through my thoughts straight. I didn't practice like expressing myself and getting to the point. And I just, I walked out, I knew I blew it and I got wait-listed. I got wait-listed. It was heartbreaking. But I'm so glad that happened because it prepared me to prepare.

So I started doing practices. I started doing MMIs and constant scenarios. I was interviewing myself constantly, constantly, constantly, constantly. So by the time I came to the University of Utah, the interview like I felt prepared, but I was still nervous because remember that GPA always weighted on my mind. I couldn't get that off my shoulders. That always weighed on my mind. I always felt like less of a student than everybody around me because I was carrying that stain on my record.

So as much as I felt prepared, I felt I was always nervous that that was going to hold me back from ever getting into med school. And I think if I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't be quite as nervous about it, but yeah, it was horrible. I couldn't sleep. It was rough, really rough.

Dr. Chan: Alan, I'm glad you're here.

Alan: Thank you.

Dr. Chan: And I just have a few more questions because we're almost out of time. So starting med school in a pandemic, what's your experience been? How do you do with all the Zoom? I mean, what's your perspective starting med school during the middle of a full-blown pandemic?

Alan: I guess the good news is that we're all in the pandemic, right? It's not just me. And so I don't feel like I'm kind of at any type of any losing position because everybody across the nation I think is doing the same thing. So I don't think it's really negatively impacting like how competitive we are or anything like that. So that part doesn't really weigh on me.

One of the key things I wanted out of medical school is to make some really good connections. That's been kind of hard. I do feel like the class right now is starting to break off into cliques. Not like in a bad way, but people are just kind of getting used to who they see all the time. And so even when I go to med school, you know, cordial hi's here and there but we don't really know that many people outside of like maybe 10, right?

Dr. Chan: Yeah. The small groups, the dedicated groups.

Alan: Yeah. Yeah. So that part's been hard. I'd I hope to kind of like network a little more, but the learning has, you know, most learning is going to be on your own anyways, so I don't think that has hurt me too bad. And in some ways, since I still live in like an hour away from campus, in some ways it's kind of helped me because I don't have to make that drive every day. Then I'm going to make do, and it's not that bad. Yeah.

Dr. Chan: And going back to being non-traditional, like how has that balance been now that you're in med school with your family? Has that been manageable? Has it been actually more manageable as a med student compared to pre-med life? Like how would you describe it?

Alan: No, this is harder. There's no question about it. This is harder. I'm trying to figure out. I really like, I really, really liked the way that the University of Utah sets up their first year, where we have all of these tests that don't count towards your grade. And I feel like I just really feel like the University of Utah has nailed the first semester. We call it foundations of medicine. I feel like they nailed it.

So it really kind of gives you a chance to figure out who you are, how you're going to dedicate time, how you're going to figure out your life, how you're going to reorganize things.

The first half of this semester so far, I'd say I did a really poor job of managing my time and finding balance. It's been really hard. Dude, I gained like 10 pounds, and it was hard. I was studying like 12 to 14 hours a day, but then you start to figure out, more efficient, be more aggressive. And I started waking up early to exercise, started an exercise group. And so kind of with time it's gotten better. And so I found time now, I could spend time in the evenings with my kids and go on weekends, but there's no question about it. There is less time now than it was before, but you make it work and that's all you can do.

Dr. Chan: Yeah. Can I pivot, Alan, and ask some more questions? Because you just have this wide variety of experiences. Just want to pick your brain a bit. Is that okay?

Alan: Yeah. Yeah. Whatever you want.

Dr. Chan: So how long have you been an elevator repair person?

Alan: About 14 years.

Dr. Chan: Okay. So help me because sometimes when I step on an elevator and it's really high and it starts to like shake a little I'm okay. It's statistically really small that that's going to plummet, right? We've all been there. Everyone listening to this has been there when you've been in an elevator and it kind of shakes a little bit extra and you just kind of have that thought that's in your mind, right?

Alan: Yeah. So it's not like the movies. So every elevator is held up by like six cables and one cable can hold up the whole weight of the elevator. It can be full with all the weights and all the people and one cable can hold up the weight of the elevator. So don't think that like if one cable breaks you're going to lose it. There's elevators running with one broken cable right now and the repairman hasn't gotten to it. That's really unsafe, but for different reasons.

The scarier part is there are emergency breaks on elevators, so it won't fall. If it falls, it'll fall a very short distance. The actual danger is number one, when we work on the elevators, we have to shut the doors off sometimes because the doors are what keep the elevator . . . Anyways, sometimes we have to bypass the doors and the door is like a safety circuit. The elevator won't run when the doors are open. Sometimes we have to bypass that feature and sometimes people forget to unbypass it. So what happens is people will get on the elevator, the elevator will think the doors are closed, and it will just take off. And when you're on the elevator, it doesn't feel like it's that fast, but an elevator takes off really fast. And so if you're halfway through the door when the elevator decides to take off, yeah, that's more common. Super, super rare. I don't want to scare people. That's super rare, but that happens way more often.

I think elevators have only fallen twice in the history of modern elevators, but people getting hurt by doors that were bypassed, yeah, I know people that have done that, that have hurt people because of that.

Dr. Chan: That sounds terrifying as well. Another elevator question. So, Alan, I'm just going to pick your brain. So there have been rare times when like elevators have been stuck and it's full of people. And I remember, you know, you kind of look at the plaque and say like not to exceed this weight limit. And then I started looking around at everyone in the elevator. So I'm just asking you, like that's just a suggestion the weight limit. I'm fairly sure that like there can be more like, there's probably like some leeway there. You can probably go a couple of hundred pounds above that weight limit, correct?

Alan: Yeah. A couple of hundred, couple of hundred is okay, but usually like with modern elevators, they have weight sensors and so it won't budge if it gets overloaded. It won't budge. But actually if you overload an elevator, that's really unsafe, but you can't do it with people so don't get too nervous about that.

Dr. Chan: Okay. I think we've all been there. We've all kind of looked at each other, going collectively, are we below the whatever the thousand-pound weight limit is? And then you start thinking like, okay, is this now in a danger zone?

All right, Alan, last question. You mentioned movies, which movie in your opinion has the best elevator scene? Again, it doesn't have to be . . . so I actually looked this up. So the two in my mind are "Die Hard" and "Speed," but maybe you have another one. I'm just curious, like, are those legendary among elevator repair people or because it was so farcical, but they are so action-packed?

Alan: "Die Hard," every movie has it wrong. Let me say that. Every movie has it very wrong. Like if we can't open the hatch, we can't get out. If I'm stuck in an elevator, I'm stuck in an elevator just like everybody else. There's no secret.

The movie I think that has it best is probably "Ocean's Eleven." At the very end, you know, they sneak into the vault and then they open the doors and they throw that little bomb out there. That's a real elevator pit. I can tell from the picture that they shot that in a real elevator pit. There's some things that are wrong with that scene too, but if we're talking like most accurate, that one.

Dr. Chan: Okay. I love it. "Ocean's Eleven." I'm going to have to pay attention. I know exactly. Is that where they kind of, yeah. The little smoke bomb and, yeah. Okay. That's fascinating. See, I thought it was going to be like "Die Hard" because I think there's a lot of elevator scenes in "Die Hard." It's kind of part of the plot.

So, all right. Alan, this has been fantastic. We're going to have to have you come back because I just know there's going to be more stories and more questions. So I just really enjoy talking to you and just hearing, you know, how you've gotten to this point and just how well it's going.

Alan: Hey, thanks a lot for having me. I really like the U. I'm glad I chose it. This has been an awesome, awesome place to be in medical school.

Dr. Chan: All right. Great. Well, thanks, Alan and take care. I'll talk to you soon.

Dr. Chan: How do you find balance between medical school and your wellness and life outside of school? What's it like having your third-year clerkship rotation cut short because of COVID-19? How does a career in business and football prepare one for a career in medicine? Today on "Talking Admissions and Med Student Life," I interview Bridger, a third-year medical student about to start his fourth year here at the University of Utah School of Medicine.

Announcer: Helping you prepare for one of the most rewarding careers in the world, this is "Talking Admissions and Med Student Life" with your host, the Dean of Admissions at the University of Utah School of Medicine, Dr. Benjamin Chan.

Dr. Chan: Well, welcome to another edition of "Talking Admissions and Med Student Life." This is our first Zoom interview because we're going through some COVID pandemic. On the line I've got Bridger. How are you doing, Bridger?

Bridger: I'm good, man. Thanks for having me on here. It's going to be fun.

Dr. Chan: Yeah. And what year are you in med school right now?

Bridger: I'm a third-year. Well, I guess I'm a third-year until tomorrow when I pass my OB/GYN Shelf, and then I guess I'll technically be in between third and fourth year.

Dr. Chan: And just to get into it a little bit, what rotation were you on and how were you notified that you were pulled off for safety reasons? Like, how did that go from your perspective, from a med student perspective?

Bridger: So I was on OB/GYN, and as you know, that's a really hands-on specialty. And so I did my first week on obstetrics. It was a lot of fun. We got to see a lot of deliveries and stuff. And then I was on nights when things started changing, but because I was on nights, it was a little bit different. I was the only med student, and it was a little bit more . . . flexible may be a good word, because they actually had me still on the procedures and stuff. And so I was still able to participate during my week on nights.

And then I had my weekend call shift that Saturday, and so, again, I was the only med student, so I was still able to participate in the surgeries and the deliveries and stuff. And then Sunday is when we got the email that said that we got pulled from clinical duties. And so I only got two of the six weeks on obstetrics this year. We did two weeks online after that, and then next year we'll have two more weeks that we kind of plug into our schedule whenever we can figure it out.

Dr. Chan: Were you surprised or could you kind of see it coming based on the chatter with the docs in the hospital, or were you completely blindsided by it?

Bridger: Well, I wouldn't say I was completely blindsided by it. I think it was kind of tough, like I said, being on OB with it being such a hands-on specialty. The original talks were, "Well, you guys can go. You can be in the hospital. You just can't see patients, and you can't have PPE. So you can't be in contact with the patients, but you can still do everything else." And I'm like, "Well, what is everything else?"

This is OB/GYN, right? If I'm going to show up at 4:00 in the morning to write a couple of notes and then sit around until 5:00 p.m. not being able to talk to patients because I can't wear masks or deliver babies because I can't wear a gown and gloves, this is going to be a little bit different OB/GYN experience than I was planning on.

So that was kind of my initial thoughts. I was like, "If I'm not going to be able to do OB/GYN and it's kind of just like trying to figure out how to keep the clock rolling on us, I'd rather just do the time later where I can actually see patients and learn the things that you learn on OB by kind of doing it."

Dr. Chan: And I know, from an administrative perspective, there was a lot of late night phone calls and emails and a lot of reaching out to . . . it's not just the University of Utah Hospital, but the partner hospitals, like IHC, VA, and everyone kind of has a different structure in place. It was stressful. It's still very stressful, but I just remember that week very clearly. There were a lot of things that started moving very, very quickly.

Bridger: Yeah, totally, I can imagine. I mean, I think it's hard for the students to realize this is not something that you guys have ever been through before on the admin side of things. I think we all are so excited to be in the hospital and finally learning with patients and learning the hands-on side of things after being stuck in the classroom for the last couple of years pretty heavy. And so I think it was kind of hard for a lot of us to swallow going back to laptop med school, you know?

Dr. Chan: Online learning, yeah.

Bridger: Yeah. I mean, it's just, like you said, kind of unprecedented times trying to figure it out as we go.

Dr. Chan: Yeah. And then I think we're still trying to figure it out both on, I think, an international/national level as well as a local level about "How do we move forward?" And I think there are some good ideas being put out, but the details are still kind of fuzzy because the virus is still among us, so it's really hard. It's really difficult.

Bridger: Yeah.

Dr. Chan: So we'll come back and talk about that a little bit near the end, but I want to focus on really positive things.

Bridger: Let's do it.

Dr. Chan: So, Bridger, let's go back to the beginning, man. When did you first have the idea that you wanted to go to med school? Walk us through that process. Was it a moment, kind of like epiphany, or was it a series of moments? What was your journey like at the very beginning? Where did that come from?

Bridger: For me, the earliest memory that I can think of, period, not just medicine related, like my earliest memory, is I was probably 3, maybe 4, and we were at my house and my little brother and I were playing around. He's two years younger than me. And he was walking around, running around, and he went up to my mom as my mom was cleaning a glass frame, and the glass slipped out of the frame and hit his back and give him like a little . . . I don't know. I'd probably say it was a couple of inches, little gash on his back. And so he started bleeding, and I lost it. I was like, "What is going on?"

So we get in the car, we drive down the street to the Alta View emergency room, and I remember the nurses and people coming up to check him out. And I was so protective and I was so worried about what was going on with my little brother. Would he be okay? And the doc walked in, he looked at me, and he gave me a pair of gloves, and he gave me a mask, and he was like, "I'll let you sit here, I'll let you watch, and I'll let you help, but you've got to calm down." So he caught me off guard.

So he gave me a mask. I'm sitting there wearing gloves, and I'm just sitting there watching as he stitches up my little brother's back. And I just remember, at that moment, looking at that guy like he was a superhero. I looked at that guy like he just saved my little brother. He just took control of the situation. He calmed me down, which nobody could do. I think that's when I was first really impressed by the medical field, and I think that's where my original desire to want to go to med school came from.

And so that was kind of my plan growing up. It was always go play football, go to med school, and become a doctor. And then when I was playing football . . . I was that guy that didn't really have to study in high school, like, ever.

Dr. Chan: Where'd you go to high school, Bridger? Because I assume you were a football star at your high school.

Bridger: I was all right. I went to Jordan.

Dr. Chan: Jordan? Okay. And what position did you play?

Bridger: So at Jordan, I kind of played everything. I played receiver on offense, and then . . .

Dr. Chan: Punter? Were you a punter too?

Bridger: I did punt, actually. Yeah.

Dr. Chan: Okay. I love it.

Bridger: You were trying to make a joke, but yeah, I actually was. So I punted, I returned, and then on defense, they kind of played me wherever depending on the team we were playing, so I'd either line up the safety or linebacker.

I had to play D-end a couple of games when we played . . . who was that? I don't know. We played somebody that had a really good tight end, so I had to play D-end, which sucked at 180 pounds.

So in high school I kind of just played wherever, and then when I got to play in college, I played safety.

Dr. Chan: Again, we don't have too many people who matriculate to med school who played college football, so I have to ask were you recruited? Did you walk on? What was that experience like, and were you pretty open that you said, "Hey, I want to go to med school after this," or did you kind of keep that hidden? How was that process?

Bridger: Yeah, so my recruiting process was kind of a mess. I had some offers to some smaller schools. Brown was one of the bigger schools, obviously, being Ivy League. But the way that their scholarship process worked, I think my GPA was like a 3.89 and my . . . I couldn't even tell you my ACT number, but all I can tell you is the combined total of my ACT and my GPA didn't get me a full-ride scholarship. I didn't qualify for a full-ride scholarship to an Ivy League school.

And so I was thinking about just going out to Brown and just paying for that first year until I could just kind of roll my academic qualifications from my first year of playing to, I guess, qualify me for the scholarship or whatever.

And then I went and talked to The U, and it just felt like a really good fit. I did tell them that I wanted to go to med school and they were like, "Yeah, that's great." I mean, it's kind of a different story than they're used to hearing from a lot of their recruits. But that was the original plan.

But going back to where I was saying I didn't really study in high school, I just didn't have the study habits when I got up to college. So I was taking pre-med classes, and I was spending way more time focusing on football than I was academics, and I figured that's kind of how I'd always been, and I'd figure it out, and it wouldn't be that big of a deal. And I got a C in my first . . .

Dr. Chan: Oh, no.

Bridger: . . . pre-med biology class.

Dr. Chan: I call that jokingly a gentleman's C, right?

Bridger: Yeah. There you go. Exactly. So I got smoked in my first undergrad biology class and quickly realized that I didn't have the study skills at that time to manage football and pre-med.

So I kept playing football. I switched my degree to business, played for a few more years, and then I actually got a concussion and decided that I wanted to use my head for something other than smashing into people. So I stopped playing football and kind of did the business thing for a while.

Dr. Chan: Was it hard to walk away?

Bridger: Oh, yeah. Definitely. It was weird going to school not playing football. I hadn't done that since I was in, like, second grade, third grade. It was always kind of just that's what you did. You woke up early, you worked out before school, you went to school, you went to practice, and that's just kind of the routine. And so, when I took that football piece away, I didn't really like school anymore.

I've always kind of looked at school like if it's getting you to a profession that requires school and requires a degree, then it's awesome, but if you're going to school for something that you could learn elsewhere and you could do kind of a more hands-on approach, that's always kind of been the way that I did it.

And so I went and I started a couple of businesses and did that side of things. And it was two weeks before I got married actually. We had a house, brand-new truck, and we were just kind of living it up for being some young kids. I was doing pretty good at . . .

Dr. Chan: Well, what were your businesses, Bridger?

Bridger: So I had a window-cleaning business that I started with a couple buddies and sold. After about a year and a half, we sold that. And then I had a sales company. It was basically . . . what I did was I had managed and trained sales teams, and that kind of helped on the corporate side of things, like managing the . . . Basically, it was kind of like a liaison between the operations and the sales side of things.

So I did that for a little while, and then I had a contract that I was ready to sign a couple of weeks before I got married with a really nice salary, awesome benefits, and everything just kind of made sense on paper, but I just didn't feel good about it. It was kind of weird. I knew that once I kind of made that call, that's what I was going to be doing, you know?

Dr. Chan: Mm-hmm.

Bridger: And so I drove over to the house. My wife was living in the house at the time, or my fiancÈe, I guess, at that time, and I was like, "Hey, I don't know about this." She's like, "Well, what do you think kind of what's going on with the numbers?" I'm like, "The numbers are great. Everything looks like it makes sense." She was like, "Well, figure it out and let me know."

So I kind of took a few hours, I hiked up into the mountains, and I kind of just got quiet. I was just kind of thinking about, "What do I really want to do? What are my motivations?" And it was at that time that I was like, "Man, I think I need to go back to school and be a doctor." I was like, "Gosh, that's going to be brutal. I'm just about to get married. I don't want to go to school for the next 10 years or whatever it's going to be."

And so I came home and I told her. I said, "Hey, I think I need to go to med school," and she was like, "Cool. Whatever I've got to do to support you, let me know. If that's what you feel like you need to do, let's do it."

So we got rid of the house. We sold the truck. We moved into a basement apartment. We downsized big time. And right after we got married, I went out and worked for the summer to try and make as much money as I could to kind of fund this journey, and here we are seven years later.

Dr. Chan: Bridger, did you already have your degree by then or you already graduated, so you had to go back to school and do some post-bacc pre-med reqs?

Bridger: Exactly, yeah.

Dr. Chan: What did that kind of look like for you?

Bridger: Exactly. So, basically, I went back and I had straight pre-med classes to go. So I was taking pretty much biology, chemistry, physics every semester. I had to start from the very beginning, and so it was basically just . . . Because of the two-year, four semesters, I guess it's five semesters, chemistry track, that's what it was. So it was two and a half years of pre-med, knocking out all of those prerequisites, and then just working when I could and studying for the MCAT.

Dr. Chan: Did you feel when you went back to school . . . you mentioned earlier the studying skills. Was it better or different as . . . I'm going to use the term as kind of a more "nontraditional student." Because it sounds like things were different in your life. You didn't have football. You were married. You kind of had more focus, I would guess. I mean, did you notice that when you started taking these classes, you were a little bit older than the other students? Do you understand what I'm saying, Bridger?

Bridger: Yeah, I understand the question. For me, I've always been able to learn really well. I've always really enjoyed learning and studying on my own. I just never had to do it for academics before. I love reading. I love learning. I love that mental game, almost, of just "How much information can I gather?" But I'd never had to do it before in a structured setting of, "This is the chapter you've got to read. These are the questions you've got to do."

So, as far as, my approach coming back, I just kind of told myself that this was what I wanted to do now, and I wasn't studying because I had to. I was studying because I wanted to. And I think that was the shift for me, was being able to take my natural inclination to want to learn and want to work intellectually, and just knowing that this wasn't something that I just had to pass the class or whatever, like academics kind of was before for me. You do good just to do good. But for me, it was like, "This is going to get me where I want to go."

And so I think just the perspective shift on doing it because I wanted to and I was interested in it, and because it was going to help me get into med school, rather than doing it to just pass a class was really the biggest difference that made kind of the change for me.

Dr. Chan: Bridger, you wrap up your studies. You take and pass the MCAT. What was your reasoning? Like, how many schools did you apply to? What was kind of your thought process? What was your kind of strategy, I guess, when you started applying to med schools? What did you look for and how you kind of worked through that?

Bridger: So I've kind of done this a little bit nontraditionally, I'd probably say. What I did was I kind of went for the numbers. That's just where my mind goes. I had a couple of med schools that people had mentioned. People that I knew went to this med school or that med school, so I knew a couple of those. And then I just read a lot of the online forums.

And then what I did was I went on every med school's website that I was looking at, and I figured out how many students that they took from in state. If it was an out-of-state school, I figured out how many they took from in state. And then I took the number of males and females as far as their percentages went per class, and I kind of averaged that out. And then I looked through their class directories almost, and I was like, "Okay, how many students have they taken from Utah before, or what percentage of students are coming from their surrounding states?" And so I went super heavy on the numbers and I only applied to, I think, 13 or 14 schools.

Dr. Chan: Okay, so a decent number. It's a good number. Not cheap.

Bridger: Yeah. Gosh, man, that was another shock. I'm like, "Holy moly, this is expensive."

Dr. Chan: Yeah, it's like Amazon. The more boxes you click, the more your checkout cart grows.

Bridger: Yeah, exactly. Holy moly. So I kind of just went pretty heavy on the numbers, and I looked at schools that were going to be historically favorable to a white guy from Utah.

And I kind of just sent them out. I got quite a few interview invites, but lucky for me, I interviewed at . . . George Washington was my first school, and then the week later, I interviewed at The U. That was right before Christmas break, and so everything kind of quiets down over the holidays. And then I came back. I think it was early June. No, early January, sorry, where I got the phone call from you. I was actually pulling into work when you called me.

Dr. Chan: I remember that, yeah. You were driving. I remember that.

Bridger: Yeah. I think I'm the only med . . .

Dr. Chan: I don't recommend anyone driving and answering their phone, but I notice a lot of people tend to do it when I call. Public service announcement.

Bridger: Yeah, I think I'm probably the only med student that, as soon as I said it, I was like, "I can't believe you just said that." But it was funny. You were like, "Hey, Bridger, this is Dr. Chan. Do you have a minute?" And I vividly remember my response was, "Hell, yeah, Dr. Chan. What's up?"

Dr. Chan: That's great.

Bridger: And I was like, "You just said that? All right. Good. Well, let's see if they still want you in after that one."

Dr. Chan: Going back to your interview day, Bridger, I'm curious. You've played in a lot of big games. Is it kind of the same anxiety right before the big game? I mean, did you feel kind of like that competitive sense and were you able to kind of quiet your nerves, or was it a completely different sensation before a big interview day?

I'm talking performance, kind of like, "Okay, you're on the big stage." I'm just curious what your thought is, because you've played in a lot of really important games, and I would argue interview day is also very important game day.

Bridger: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Chan: So I'm curious what your strategy was and your thoughts about that.

Bridger: For me, my interview day, I honestly thought you guys were pranking me. So I'm in the room and I thought you guys were just like . . . because of the athletic background or whatever, I thought you guys were like, "Oh, let's kind of just see where his head is at."

So out of my interview group, everybody else gets called out of the room and I'm sitting in the old . . . I guess it's now Academic Success, but before it was Academic Success, I was sitting in that office, and everybody else had gotten called out to their interview. And so I'm sitting there and I still haven't been called out, and they're like, "Oh, your person is just running a little bit late." And I was like, "Okay."

So I'm sitting there by myself, and then I get pulled back into . . . they were doing construction back there, and I get pulled into this room and there's a guy with an impact rattle gun on other side of a piece of sheet rock. And so it literally is me and this lady who showed up 15 minutes late for a 20-minute interview sitting in this teeny tiny room that's kind of like a makeshift office while they're doing construction. And it sounds like I'm in a mechanic shop, so we're basically yelling at each other.

And I'm like, "This is kind of funny." I literally thought you guys were just messing with me. I thought you guys were watching how I'd handle the stress. And I'm just like, "This is kind of crazy."

And so we have our super quick interview, and she's like, "Okay, well, sorry I showed up late, but it looks like you'll do a good job." So I had no idea where I stood there.

And then I went into my next interview, and I remember . . .

Dr. Chan: Because this is before MMI. Yeah, I think you were getting traditional interview style back then.

Bridger: Well, I had two traditional interviews, and then I had the MMIs after. So I was in that hybrid year.

Dr. Chan: Okay. That's right.

Bridger: And so my second interview, I go in there, and I remember who it is, but I won't call him out. He was like, "I do this a little bit different. I've been doing this for a while. So I've already looked over your application. I just have two questions." So he asked me the two questions. And like 5 minutes in to the 20-minute interview, he's like, "Okay, we're done here." And I was like, "Oh my gosh, I blew it. Five minutes and, 'We're done here'? I get, 'We're done here'?"

Dr. Chan: As the admissions dean, this stuff makes me cringe. I'm sorry, Bridger.

Bridger: No, it's okay. So I get back into . . . I'm back in the little waiting room with the lady that's running the day, and she's like, "You just want to hang out with me today." I was like, "I guess that's the plan," because I sat in there for 15 minutes with her the first time and 15 minutes on the second one.

And so, for me, honestly, I think the whole situation was just kind of so bizarre to me. I don't know if I was nervous or if I was more just kind of like intrigued by the whole day. But maybe that didn't answer your question. I guess, for me, the big day is never the time to prepare. You know what I mean?

Dr. Chan: Yeah.

Bridger: Game day, when the lights are on, that's . . . if you're trying to prepare it that time, you shouldn't be there, you know?

And so I kind of looked at the interview days and the second look day and that kind of stuff, I look at that as kind of fun. The games are when it's fun. All the practice, and all the early mornings, and the late nights, and all the work that you put in beforehand is kind of where I feel like it makes sense to stress. I feel like when it's game time, that's when it's time to have fun. That's when it's time to just kind of let go and prove that you deserve to be there rather than worrying about all the other stuff.

Dr. Chan: That's great. So, Bridger, you decide to stay here, come to our school. How was that jump from more or less pre-med reqs, undergrad classes, to med school itself? Was that a smooth transition? Did you have to learn new study skills? What was the first couple of years like?

Bridger: Oh, yeah. I remember that first Foundations quiz that we had, and I remember I got a decent score on it and I was like, "Oh cool. I deserve to be here." You know what I mean? And then I saw the average and I was like, "Oh my gosh. These kids are geniuses." I was like, "What in the heck? Maybe I don't deserve to be here."

I thought I did pretty well, and then I saw that I'm on the backside of that curve and I was like, "Holy moly. I worked like crazy for this, and I didn't even hit the little top of the curve. Wow, this is next level. This is as big of a jump as it was going from high school football to college football. Everything is just a completely different level and a completely different speed."

Dr. Chan: And did you have to redo how you studied? I mean, how many hours a week were you putting in, and changes you had to do to your routine, or how did you kind of tackle that?

Bridger: So I totally changed my routine. I would not recommend this route for anybody, and I've said that in some of the talks and stuff that I've given to the other classes. But my personality is really pretty all-or-nothing. I kind of struggle with balance big time.

And so, after that first quiz . . . I worked pretty hard. I studied quite a bit, and like I said, I thought I did well, but to see where I was at compared to everybody else, I was just like, "Hey, this is going to require another level."

And so what I did, and like I said, I wouldn't recommend this, but I kind of just buried myself in school. I was at the library as they'd open it every day. I was the first one there, and then I would study all day. I wouldn't really eat. I had those Uncrustables, horrible little peanut butter and jelly sandwiches that I'd buy by the box at Costco, and I'd throw a couple of those in my backpack and I would just sit and study all day.

I wasn't exercising anymore. I wasn't sleeping near enough. I kind of just lost myself in the studying side of things, and I just worked like crazy. Yeah, my scores went up a little, but honestly, the bang for the buck that I was getting from everything that I was putting in wasn't worth everything that I was giving up on the personal and the health side of things.

Dr. Chan: Yeah. And then did you feel like . . . you said balance. Did you feel that as far as exercise, and wellness, and your relationship with your wife and your family, did that go through a rough patch during that time? I mean, what are your thoughts on that?

Bridger: Yeah, totally. So I came in . . . and it's funny. I guess I'm probably the only med student you've had on here talk about their weight coming into med school and then changing, but I . . .

Dr. Chan: Yeah, that's one of those questions I don't routinely ask, but if you want to spontaneously talk about it, go for it, man.

Bridger: Yeah, exactly. So I came in at like 185, 190. Yeah, I was pretty healthy, in pretty good shape. I had maintained taking care of myself pretty good during my pre-med years. I had a couple of shoulder surgeries that kicked me back, but overall, I was still taking pretty good care of myself. And by the end of the first year of med school, I was like 165 pounds.

Dr. Chan: Wow.

Bridger: I just withered away. I just wasn't taking care of myself. As far as my life with family and stuff, my family has always kind of seen me dive into whatever it was, and so, for them, this wasn't anything new. There was no concern of, "Oh, well, he's not really taking care of himself." It's more just, "Well, he's got something in his sights that he wants to do and this is kind of how he feels like he's going to accomplish it. So it is what it is."

I think, for me, what I would do differently, definitely just on the family side of things, is I missed a ton of family stuff, whether it was little weekend vacations or just going out to eat or hanging out on the weekend, kind of just fun little stuff. I passed on a lot of that so that I could study, and I would definitely go back and prioritize time with family a little bit better if I could go back and do it again.

Dr. Chan: Okay. Third year rolls around, and you kind of mentioned at the beginning that it's kind of a pivot. You go from more classroom-based to much more experiential learning, being in the clinics, the wards, the different hospitals. Was that an exciting transition for you to get away from the classroom and do more hands-on experiences?

Bridger: Oh, 100%, yeah. This is why I went to med school. Seeing patients, doing the work, kind of like the teamwork side of things, figuring out how to work with all of the different staff in the hospital, and the patient and their family. I was so excited to get out of that damn library and get into the hospital and start really doing what I came to med school to do.

Dr. Chan: What was your least and most favorite rotation during your abbreviated third year as it were?

Bridger: So I came to med school to be a surgeon. It was never a matter for me whether I was doing medicine or doing surgery. It was always just like, "What kind of surgery am I going to do?" So I spent a ton of time before med school, during my first and second years in the OR, just getting to know surgeons and getting to a place where they knew that I was going to be somebody that would one day be their colleague so that they would kind of give me more learning opportunities than I would have otherwise had as a third-year med student.

And so I loved my surgery rotation. I did trauma surgery at The U and I had an absolute blast. I was pulling, like, 100-hour weeks and I just loved it. I loved being at the hospital first thing in the morning and I loved leaving when it was dark. I loved the grind and I had a blast.

But then I got on psychiatry and something was just different, and I fought the . . .

Dr. Chan: Really? Interesting.

Bridger: Yeah. So I'm actually going into psychiatry.

Dr. Chan: Oh, you spilled it, Bridger.

Bridger: I know. Sorry. Yeah, so I'm actually going into psychiatry.

Dr. Chan: That's fascinating, Bridger. I want to learn more, because, again, if you loved surgery so much, what is it about psychiatry that changed your mind, I guess?

Bridger: Yeah. So it's a really hard question to answer because I don't really know if I can name one thing. I've got classmates that wanted to go into surgery, and then they got on their surgery rotation and they did the trauma surgery and they just hated it, right? They hated the hours. They hated the work. They hated the people. It was just . . .

Dr. Chan: They hated the grind? Yeah.

Bridger: Yeah, exactly. And they're like, "Hey, I've got to find something else." Where for me, my first two weeks on . . . sorry, I guess it's three weeks. So it was three weeks and three weeks before and after the holiday break for me. So my first couple of weeks on psychiatry, I was just like, "Man, like I really like this."

I've always been fascinated by psychology and the mind and kind of how the mind affects everything else. And so I've always studied psychology and that kind of stuff on my own and it's always been fascinating, and I've always thought that it was the most interesting field of medicine. I never considered it as a career because, like I said, I came to med school to be a surgeon. I didn't even have a crack in that door as far as something else sneaking in and changing my plans.

But as I was on psychiatry, I talked to a couple of the attendings about it, and I loved the specialty. I loved that my ability to communicate and connect with patients really made a difference, right? I'd had some experiences on medicine, or surgery, or some of the other rotations where the patient was being extra difficult and I was able to kind of go in there as the med student with a little bit more time than everybody else and really communicate with the patient, kind of connect with the patient, and get a little piece of information that they weren't really going to give up because they didn't like us, or didn't trust us, or didn't want to be there.

Dr. Chan: Yeah, or the team was in a hurry but you had a little bit more time. This is beautiful, Bridger. I love it.

Bridger: Exactly. So I'd had those experiences where I was able to connect with somebody who nobody else could or did, and it made a difference in the care. I saw that everybody else was like, "Yeah, great. Good job. You talked to the patient. We don't really care. Just, 'Give us the information,' or, 'This is going to kind of steer the course of what we're trying to do.'"

But when I got on psychiatry, I was on child and adolescent, and we had a . . . he was 16, 17, 18, something like that. He was just really difficult, right? We'd come in and he'd be swearing at us and yelling at us and kind of just angry and ornery all the time. And the attending is like, "Well, why don't you give it a shot? The kid obviously hates me, so see what you can do." You know what I mean?

And I was able to connect with him, and I was able to kind of help him take his guard down and just be like, "Look, man, we're here to help. And all the things you're saying, you might think they're true, and that's fine. You're not hurting our feelings here. But you're here, so why don't you get something out of it?"

I was pretty direct and just kind of approached it the way that I just naturally would. I wasn't thinking from a textbook on how to say this so that they do this or anything like that. I kind of just like approached it in a natural way for me.

And we walked out and the attending was like, "Kid, you've got a gift. You're pretty good at this, and your ability to do that will help you in whatever field you go into, but you've mentioned that psychiatry is interesting to you. If you pursue that path, you could be a pretty exceptional psychiatrist if you learned all the things that you'd learn through that training on top of kind of just your natural ability to read people and communicate."

And so, over the holiday break, that kind of stuck in my mind of, "This might actually be something that I could do." I kind of opened that door a little bit, and I was talking to one of the attendings that I worked with and he said, "Just try it on. Try it on. Go around for a couple of days like that's what you're going to do. When people ask you, tell them that you're going into psychiatry. See how it feels. See what they say. See how their reaction is and whether that bothers you or not."

He said, "Because that's one thing that's different than going into plastic surgery. People ask, 'What are you going into?' And you say, 'Oh, plastic surgery.' And they're like, 'Oh, wow.' When you say psychiatry, they go, 'I thought you were in med school. I thought you were going to be a real doctor,' and all that stuff."

Dr. Chan: Welcome to the club, Bridger. I'm excited.

Bridger: Yeah, there you go.

Dr. Chan: You've got great insight, little nuggets. I love it.

Bridger: Yeah. And so it was actually really interesting the first time somebody asked me and I said, "I think I'm going to do psychiatry." It just felt good to say. That sounds weird, but I smiled as I said it, where before it was like, "I don't know if I'm going to do plastics, or ortho, or trauma, or peds." I was always fighting, fighting, fighting for the decision on, "What's the right call? Why do I want to do this? Why do I want to do that? The patient population and the hours and the training."

It was always such a chaotic decision for me because I could see myself kind of doing well on all of them, but that was the first time that I said, "This is what I'm going to do," and I just felt really good about it. And after that, I was like, "Man, that advice to try it on was gold."

And so I came back from the break and I was like, "I think I'm doing psych." I was at the VA for my last three weeks and I loved it. I totally threw myself in. I mean, I tried to do that all year, kind of throw myself in of, "If I were actually in the specialty, if this is what I was going to be doing, how would I act on this?" Because I guess I didn't really know, but I figured, "I'm here, I'm paying a ton of money to be here, I might as well dive into the experience head first and kind of get everything I can out of it."

But that was the first time that I was just like, "This is definitely what I'm going to do." And as much fun as I had on surgery and other rotations, every experience that I've had since making that decision has just confirmed that that's what I want to do.

Dr. Chan: Bridger, I love it. It's just a beautiful story, and it so resonates with me. I can just tell by the way you describe it how . . . yeah, it sounds like a journey. And I always talk to the students about a journey going from pre-med to med to eventually a practicing physician, and it's just kind of a beautiful transformation that's taking a hold of your life. And as you kind of figure this stuff out in the midst of a COVID/coronavirus pandemic, it sounds like you're in a good place with your decision.

Bridger: Yeah, definitely.

Dr. Chan: We're running out of time, Bridger, so just a couple of more questions.

Bridger: Sure.

Dr. Chan: The first one is you kind of talked about your weight, and apparently you're well known for some type of exercise regimen. So can you talk a little bit about that, and just where that came from, and what that entails?

Bridger: Yeah, sure. So I guess I'm like the med school nut job. People look at me like I'm crazy. But after I kind of let myself go that first year, I decided that I just wasn't going to let that happen again. I was going to be waking up at 4:00 a.m., hitting the gym before I had to be up to the school. I was still going to be at the school by 6:00. And so it was one of those things where, with me living off campus, I had to factor in the commute time. So I was waking up at 4:00 a.m. working out every day.

And then I came across this . . . it's not really a workout program. It's almost like a mental toughness program that this guy came out with. And what it is, is two workouts a day. Each has to be 45 minutes. One of them has to be done completely outside. You drink a gallon of water a day. You take a five-minute cold shower. You have to stick to a diet, and you've got no cheat meals, no dessert, no sweets, no alcohol. You read 10 pages of personal development, business development type reading, like nonfiction. Let's see what else. Ten minutes of goal-setting meditation visualization kind of stuff in the morning. And it's 75 days straight of that.

Dr. Chan: No days off, no weekends, just full straight up?

Bridger: No, nothing. Exactly.

And so, when I came across this program, I was like, "When would be the absolute worst time in my med school schedule and the seasons?" Being in Utah, the winters are pretty rough outside. And so what I did was I decided to do it during surgery, peds, and then it tailed off in psychiatry, but that also happened to be over Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's. So that's what I did.

The first time I tried it, I got, like, 18 days in, and then it was my 24-hour call on trauma surgery and we were literally in the operating room all night. And usually, I had been able to . . . I had my first call while I was doing it and I did fine because I just ran around the hospital outside for 45 minutes, but that second time, I literally couldn't get out of the OR. I just didn't have any time. And so I failed my first attempt on Day 18, and then I made it through the 75 days.

There are different phases to the program, so I finished Phase 1 during my family medicine clerkship while I was down in Manti, which was also freezing cold. It gets super cold down there. So I did that while I was on my rural family med rotation.

And then I actually just barely, over this last weekend, failed Phase 2. Well, I guess it's the third phase, but it's called Phase 2. When I was out roofing this chicken coop that I just built in my backyard, my water bottle rolled off and spilled, and I did not remember to factor in the water, so I actually failed on Day 21 of Phase 2. I guess that would have been my Day 130-something that I'd been doing this dang near straight, and I failed by 10 ounces of water, so I just had to start over three days ago.

Dr. Chan: But even with the starting over, have you seen a change either mentally or physically? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Bridger: Yeah, totally. So the physical change has been an awesome byproduct, honestly, but I think the program is 100% a mental program. There are so many takeaways for me just as far as not negotiating what you want. So many times before, I would want something, but I'd let things get in the way, like that first year being a perfect example, right? Everybody says you go to med school and, "Oh, wow. Well, you're really going to have to work like crazy for the next four years and kind of sacrifice everything else," and that's just seems to be the story that everybody tells themselves. But I just decided that I was going to challenge that story and I was going to do it during the worst possible time for my schedule just to prove that it could be done.

And it's actually been kind of cool because a lot of people in the med school, like you said, it's kind of getting around. It's funny that I'm talking about this on a med school podcast. But it is kind of funny that it's gotten around and people have been like, "Wow, you're able to do this during med school, and not only during med school but during the worst possible time in med school?"

And I did it at that time, one, because I think, for me, the bigger the challenge, the more excited I am to kind of do it. But two, I really wanted to do it during that time so that when . . . I've had several classmates and underclassmen and people kind of hitting me up about the program, and making their attempts at it. And one of them has finished it and the other one is on Day 20-something right now. And a bunch of them have kind of gotten a few weeks in and failed and started over and whatever.

But it's been really, really cool to me to kind of just know that that's the impact, I guess, that I'm having on some of the students. They look at me and they go, "If he can do it, I can do it," and I love that. And so it's been, actually, really fun to kind of not only push just for myself, but on the days that I really don't want to do it and it's freezing cold outside and I don't want to go do a 45-minute outside workout when it's freezing and snowing on Christmas Day, it was like, "Well, if I don't, then that just kind of gives everybody a reason, 'Well, on these kinds of days I don't have to do it.'"

And so I just kind of took all those options off the table and just . . . it's actually been really fun to kind of get all the messages and stuff from different med students that are like, "I'm on Day 7 and it's awesome, and I'm starting to see some change." It's just been kind of fun.

Dr. Chan: That's beautiful. I love it, Bridger. This is all . . . I don't know. It's just so great how far you've come in such a short amount of time.

I guess the last question before we have to sign off, Bridger, can you tell us the Utah football tuxedo story? Because that's kind of legendary in my mind.

Bridger: Oh my gosh, yeah. So I think that story has evolved. It wasn't quite a tuxedo, but it's funny. Man, I was not planning on telling this story. I think Sam probably put you up to this. He's always trying to get me to tell this story.

Dr. Chan: It's a good story.

Bridger: Yeah. Gosh. Okay. So my very first day of football at the University of Utah was worse than anybody . . . like, you could make a movie out of it and people would be like, "Yeah, that would never happen."

So I meet with Coach Whitt and I'm wearing dress slacks, a shirt, and tie. We're in his office and we're kind of finishing the "welcome to the team" kind of deal. And because of the way that my timeline worked out with different schools that I was talking to, I was like a week behind as far as the recruiting curve, I guess.

And so I'm in his office. I'm wearing the dress clothes, whatever. I'm wearing a pair of brown wingtip dress shoes. He goes, "Okay. We'll just go down to the weight room, tell the coach that you need your workout gear, and hop in on the workout, and we'll just get you rolling right now." So I said, "All right." So I walk downstairs to the weight room.

Dr. Chan: So it's Sunday dress. You were dressed in your nice clothes, right?

Bridger: Yeah, I looked like I'm ready to go to church.

I walk through the doors of the weight room and I'm like five minutes late, and so everybody is in their workout gear. And at The U, you don't just show up in gym clothes. You have to wear the outfit for the workout, you know? So I walk in and there's a little strength and conditioning coach. He's probably like 5'8". He's balding and he's kind of chubby.

And I walk over to him and I go, "Hey, I'm Bridger. I was just up with Coach Whitt. He just told me to get the workout gear and jumping on the workout." And this guy just tears into me. "If you're here for all the free crap . . ." Man just starts going off. I obviously can't repeat what he said on the podcast, but he just starts tearing into me and I'm like, "Who in the heck is this guy? What did I do to piss him off?"

So he goes, "If you're going to get in on the workout, that's what you're wearing. I'm not walking away from the workout to get you workout gear." And I'm like, "Okay."

So I just jump in line while they're doing all their warm-ups and stuff, and lucky me, it happened to be leg day that day. And so I'm wearing wingtip dress shoes, freaking slacks, a shirt, and I took the tie off and put it in the corner or whatever. But we're doing box jumps, and squats, and deadlifts, and lunges. And so, of course, we're doing a box squat and I drop down and blow the back end of my left pant leg out. So I've got this huge hole in my pants. You can see my underwear and I'm like, "What in the heck?" And everybody's looking at me like, "Who is this kid?" I haven't met a teammate yet. Nobody knows who I am.

Dr. Chan: This is your first impression.

Bridger: This is my first impression. So I walk in, I'm doing this workout, my pants are blown out, I'm doing box jumps in dress shoes so I'm sliding all over the place, and everybody's looking at me like, "Who in the hell is this kid and why is he here?" So I'm the most uncomfortable I have ever been in my entire life. Of course, nobody is talking to me. Nobody wants anything to do with this weirdo that's working out in dress clothes.

And so we go to the locker room and it's like we're going out to practice. It was a Monday, and Mondays we do shells, which is basically just a foam vest instead of actual shoulder pads. And so you just throw the foam vest on under your jersey and then you're just wearing shorts and your cleats. Well, nobody told me that and they apparently didn't have shells for me, and so they just put my pads in my locker, and so I'm like, "Okay." So I just put on all my gear.

And the way that it worked is I was supposed to go to meetings, but I didn't know where my meeting was, and so I kind of just sat in the locker room and I put my stuff on.

So I went out there and I got out there early, and I'm the one kid out of 135 guys wearing shoulder pads. And so everybody else is just wearing shorts and their little foam vest under their jersey, and I'm suited and booted and I'm the only one. And everybody is like, "Who is this guy?" People were literally thinking that it was some kind of . . . you know, somebody won a contest where they got to hang out with the team for a day. And so they're like, "What?"

Dr. Chan: Do you think it was almost like hazing? Did that go through your mind, like, "They do this to everyone"?

Bridger: Yeah, it totally went through my mind. I'm like, "What in the heck is going on?" So I'm just trying to blend in. I'm just trying to hide behind everybody. When they're calling people out for drills, I'm just like, "I am not getting anywhere near this field today." And of course, "New guy," somebody yells. So I have to go out there and I'm on punt. And I'm lined up against Brice McCain, who played in the league for quite a few years after he finished up.

But they line me up on punt team and I'm like the kill man, so that means I'm lined up out wide. And basically, my job is get off the line, get past the defender, and basically just fly down to the guy that catches the ball. I had done that all through high school, whatever.

I go, I line up, and I'm lined up just like I always have, and they snap the ball and I go to do my little, I don't know, jab, step, swim move to get off the line that worked every single time in high school, and I'm literally upside down before I even realize what's going on.

He had gotten under my pads and just had thrown me, and then I'm trying to get up off the ground and he just keeps shoving me on the ground. I literally couldn't even get off the line and four yards down the field before I had gotten pushed down three or four times. Of course, he starts talking crap. "Welcome to college football," this and that, and I'm just like, "Oh my gosh."

Dr. Chan: Wow.

Bridger: And so, after that, we get back in and nobody is talking to me. Everybody is like, "Who is this guy?" And so I didn't know that they did your laundry up there. You just leave your stuff in your locker and they wash it and put it back in there. So I'm packing all my stuff into my gym bag so that I can drive home and wash my clothes for the next day of practice. And everybody else thought that I was just quitting. They thought I was literally packing my crap.

Dr. Chan: Oh, wow.

Bridger: And so they're like, "You're done?" And I'm like, "What do you mean?" They're like, "Dude, they do the laundry here. Just leave it." I'm like, "Oh my gosh." So, after that day, I was just like . . . I literally had never had so much uncomfortability tossed at me at once. It was, by far, the worst first day of anything I think anybody has ever had. And so, after that, I was just like, "Well, can't get any worse than this."

Dr. Chan: That's a wonderful story, Bridger.

Bridger: Yeah.

Dr. Chan: And then looking back, did everyone just kind of laugh about it and you were kind of known for that?

Bridger: Oh, totally, yeah. I wouldn't say I was known for it. It was something that people would laugh about and talk about, because after putting in the work and always . . . like, after that day, I committed to just be first one there, last one to leave kind of thing.

I kind of grew on the team and I was actually somebody that contributed and it was funny to laugh about it looking back of where I started to where I ended up.

Dr. Chan: And did Coach Whitt . . . he heard about this, right?

Bridger: I mean, he was the one that called me out for getting out there on punt team and . . . obviously, you can't blend in when you're the only one wearing full pads and whatever, so I'm pretty sure . . .

Dr. Chan: Did it make him a smile at least, or who knows?

Bridger: Yeah, honestly, I think it was one of those things where it's just like all you can do is laugh. It's one of those situations where there's not really another option that makes any sense at that point.

Dr. Chan: Well, Bridger, this has been fantastic. It's good talking to you. I'm just so happy with how far you've come. Just hang in there. Stay safe and healthy during this time and we'll get the rotations going soon. And I'm excited you're going to become a psychiatrist, man. That's great. I'm really pumped for that.

Bridger: I'm really excited. Yeah, it'll be a lot of fun. Thank you for . . .

Dr. Chan: We'll have you come back in a few months and give a little update about . . . I think it's also fascinating, too, going through the residency application process, especially with COVID and everything going on. I would love to have your insight and take on things because it's going to probably look a little different. Yeah. Cool.

Bridger: Anytime, man. Let me know.

Dr. Chan: All right. Thanks, Bridger.

Bridger: Okay. I'll talk to you later. See you.

Announcer: Thanks for listening to "Talking Admissions and Med Student Life" with Dr. Benjamin Chan, the ultimate resource to help you on your journey to and through medical school. A production of The Scope Health Sciences Radio, online at thescoperadio.com.

Dr. Chan: How does a person's little brother inspire them to become a pediatrician at the ripe old age of 15? What's it like growing up African American in American Fork, Utah, and becoming more resilient and driven because of it? Is it possible to still be a sports aficionado and a busy medical student at the same time?

Today, on "Talking Admissions and Med Student Life," I interview Eddie, a first-year medical student here at The University of Utah School of Medicine.

Announcer: Helping you prepare for one of the most rewarding careers in the world, this is "Talking Admissions and Med Student Life," with your host, the Dean of Admissions at The University of Utah School of Medicine, Dr. Benjamin Chan.

Dr. Chan: Well, welcome to another edition of "Talking Admissions and Med Student Life." I've got a fantastic guest today, Eddie, first-year student. How are you doing?

Eddie: Doing so good.

Dr. Chan: Good. Great. And it sounds like school is . . . you're right in the middle of finals, it sounds like?

Eddie: Getting close. So next week we start off with our finals. We have one on Monday, two Wednesday, one Friday.

Dr. Chan: That's a lot.

Eddie: Yes.

Dr. Chan: That's a lot. All right. Before we get into it, let's go back. Time machine. Let's go back to the beginning. When did you decide to become a doctor? How old were you and what was going on?

Eddie: I was about 14, 15. I was about 15 years old. And I have an interesting story about how that came about.

Dr. Chan: Well, that's why you're here. Let's hear it.

Eddie: Exactly. But mine came about because of my little brother. He's 16 now, so he was only 2 when the idea popped into my head. And I grew up . . . I'm the oldest of five. Single-parent family. And so . . .

Dr. Chan: And where's this at?

Eddie: American Fork.

Dr. Chan: American Fork.

Eddie: Yeah. So I grew up in American Fork, Utah.

Dr. Chan: All right.

Eddie: Yeah, just a single-parent family. So I was kind of the dad from like age 4 or so. And so had a lot of responsibilities on my plate. And you grow up a little bit quick and you don't get that childhood that you want.

And when my little brother was born, he was just my only little brother, and me and him just connected quickly. When he was about 2 years old, I just saw how much joy that childhood has. And me and him would play, we would run around, we had the best time ever. And it was just so fun because, yeah, I got to see the innocence of childhood. I got to see what having a childhood is like. And so there was something that just drew me to that, drew me to kids, drew me to helping individuals that didn't get to have what I . . . or that get to have what I didn't.

And so I remember talking to a friend, and I was always captivated by the body. We're just very complex individuals. How the body works is just very fascinating to me. And I had a friend tell me . . . she's like, "You know, I'm thinking about becoming a pediatrician." I'm like, "What in the world? I've never heard that word. What is that?" And she's like, "It's a kid doctor." I'm like, "Hmm." I looked into it, I researched it, and I'm like, "You know what?" Something just sparked inside me. I'm like, "That's going to be my journey. I'm going to try to become a pediatrician."

And as I've gotten older and over the years of this journey, I've seen the disparities that occur in medicine and that's driven me even more. Growing up in Utah, being a minority, and African American especially in Utah, there's not many out there. And so I didn't get a lot of exposure to what the disparities among African Americans are like, but just seeing it among just minorities in general, it drew me to wanting to help. And that desire to help others to get what I didn't was something that just drove the . . . it was a driving force.

Dr. Chan: It gave you the fire to keep on going.

Eddie: Oh, yeah. And it just kept growing. My little brother sparked it, and then after that, it just kept going and going.

Dr. Chan: Was he sick a lot?

Eddie: No, it wasn't even that he was sick. It was just the fact that . . . I had a younger sister that was sick. She had asthma and all sorts of just health issues. She was always in the hospital and stuff, and we didn't get the best healthcare. I mean, I was still younger. I didn't fully understand. But as I did classes and stuff in medicine, like premed, and just even seeing just the problems in the world out there, that was what really just kept my desire to erase these disparities.

Dr. Chan: Yeah.

Eddie: Because I've always been one that I look . . . I try to be one that can change the future for others. I'm the oldest, so my siblings, I've always been . . . I'm like, "I'm going to set a good path for you so that you don't have to go through what I did." And then all through my undergrad and stuff, I worked with individuals from disadvantaged circumstances to help them and erase those different obstacles that I had to face to get to where I am.

Dr. Chan: You mentioned growing up African American in Utah. What was that like in American Fork?

Eddie: It was interesting. In my graduating . . .

Dr. Chan: I'll bet you have some stories.

Eddie: Oh, so many. Well, when there's not much exposure to a certain culture, there's a lot of cultural insensitivity. I've had things said to me that I'm like, "Wow. I can't believe you just said that to me." And just there are a lot of stereotypes placed upon me.

I love sports. That is probably my favorite pastime, and I was good at it because I practiced and practiced. But they would attribute my being good at sports to because I'm black and stuff, as they would say. I'm like, "No, that has nothing to do with being black just gives me these naturally amazing athletic abilities."

And not only that, even growing up, or going through college and things, I worked my butt off. I got good grades and I'd get scholarships. It's like, "Oh, you just got that because you're black." It's like, "No." They try to attribute my success and things and getting acknowledged for things to being black. And you have to become very resilient, very just dismissive of what they say, because otherwise it could weigh you down.

Dr. Chan: You know, I perceive you have to grow up more quickly.

Eddie: Oh, very much so.

Dr. Chan: Yeah, because you're dealing with comments and what people say much earlier at a younger age.

Eddie: Well, not only that, I've had things said to me that . . . yeah. I remember in elementary school being called certain words and I would just go home crying. I had no idea why people would be saying those things to me.

Dr. Chan: Yeah. And then sometimes . . . I work with kids a lot in my child psychiatry job, and sometimes the kids don't know the word, but they know the feeling, like the anger and the venom behind the word. And that can cause the tears, the emotional reaction, as well. So it's fascinating and it's sad that it goes on.

Eddie: Yeah. Well, it even happens now. I remember the first date me and my wife had, me and her were just walking around and I got called certain things and she was just shocked. And I'd been going through it for a while, and so I just . . . I mean, it was just something I dismissed and stuff. But she was pretty distraught. She's like, "I can't believe people would still say things like that." I'm like, "Yeah." You just get used to it. It's ridiculous.

Dr. Chan: Well, Eddie, let's jump up to high school. You're in high school, you're studying hard, and you're getting good grades. Walk me through the decision about how you went through the college application process.

Eddie: Oh my goodness. I'm a first-generation student. I had no idea what I was doing. I still have no idea what I'm doing. It's one of those things where each step I take is just one . . . it's going down a path that a foot has never touched. And so there have been a lot of bumps and bruises and a lot of problems along the way.

And high school was interesting because I always thought I was going to go out of state. I didn't really take any . . . I took plenty of classes. I could have done concurrent enrollment, or AP classes I took. There was one class I didn't take the AP test and other classes I just . . .

I didn't sign up for concurrent enrollment because I'm like, "Oh, I'm going to go to my favorite college, Notre Dame." I was born out that way, and so I thought . . . I was so naive because the application process came about and, like I said, I had no idea what I was doing. I realized, "Oh." Right at the very . . . once I started applying, I'm like, "Wait a second. Tuition, money costs and stuff for going out of state versus in state, no one really told me about this."

Dr. Chan: Notre Dame is expensive, yeah.

Eddie: Yes. And so I was just applying to a few colleges in Utah. Yeah, I had a lot of help. And what's nice is the application process is pretty simple. It walks you through it.

Dr. Chan: Were you trying to find schools that had a good kind of premed program, or were you kind of thinking along those lines back then?

Eddie: Once again, I didn't even realize there was a premed program, that there were certain premed classes you had to take. I just assumed, "Hey, you have to take some science classes in college. You have to do . . ." Well, that's all I really thought. I didn't realize there was an MCAT. I didn't realize there was all the extracurricular things you had to do. Once again, I've been so naive in this process.

And so I started applying to certain schools I felt like I could do well and get in, get scholarships. Because having a single mother raising five kids, I was going to have to pay for myself.

I applied to SUU and got a full ride there. But then I was also playing football and I had Utah State looking at me kind of. And so I applied up there. I got in. I ended up going to Utah State because I was going to play football, but they just wanted . . . I didn't really like the position I was going for.

Dr. Chan: What position were you playing?

Eddie: So I was a really good kicker in high school and they wanted me to kick. I hated it. I love having the ball. I loved catching the ball and getting tackled, or being tackled.

Dr. Chan: Yeah.

Eddie: And so I played tight end and outside linebacker, and I wanted to go for those positions, but being 5'11" . . . I am a bigger dude, but being 5'11" and playing those positions, it wouldn't work.

Dr. Chan: Yeah.

Eddie: And so they wanted me to kick. And I remember going up to Utah State and I was a preferred walk-on, so I would have made the team, but it just did not vibe with me. I didn't like the culture, didn't like the type of individuals I'd be around all the time and the time commitment. I felt that I was going to become a doctor. I didn't have time for this. And so it was either school or athletics.

Dr. Chan: And athletics is a full-time job at that time.

Eddie: Yes.

Dr. Chan: I've had a few friends who've played college athletics, football, basketball, track. You know, when they talk about it, it's like, "Wow." The practice time and the commitment, it kind of takes the fun out of the sport. Almost universally, it's a full-time job.

Eddie: Yeah.

Dr. Chan: On top of school.

Eddie: Yeah. So I got there and just I didn't like it, and so then I had a decision, "Do I figure out how to get down to SUU or just stay at Utah State?" And just decided to stay at Utah State.

It was funny because I tried to leave Utah State a couple times, applied down to The U or UVU and stuff. Got in, didn't get the scholarships I got up there, so I just stayed up there. Yeah, that was my journey to . . .

Dr. Chan: So how was it like going from American Fork to Logan?

Eddie: It was different.

Dr. Chan: More snow?

Eddie: It was freezing. I still don't know why I'm in Utah. I do not like the cold. This time of the year is miserable. It's dark all the time. It's cold. I hate it. But I have family here. You know, I got into The U, which I'm like, "You know what? I can't pass this up."

But yeah, going up to Logan was . . . it was a lot different. It's a lot smaller. Growing up in American Fork, it's kind of a smaller field, but you're really close to everything. And Logan, you're not close to anything, and you have to drive through the canyon, and so it was a cultural change.

A lot of outdoors things, but growing up I was a city boy. And so I didn't find a lot of joy doing those things, so that's another reason why it just wasn't my type of place, but there are a lot of excellent things that happened. And some of the life-changing courses that took place, or events, that's happened in Logan. So I am very appreciative for my time up in Logan.

Dr. Chan: And how did the premed activities go? We're not only talking about the science classes, but we're also talking research and community service. What did that look like for you? How did you get involved?

Eddie: So the premed advisor, Yvonne, she was phenomenal. She was . . .

Dr. Chan: Shout-out to Yvonne who is listening right now.

Eddie: Seriously. She saved me. And to get to this point, a lot of the reason why I'm here is because of her. Because once again, I was naive, had no idea what I was doing. Oh my gosh.

First off, the science classes, that was a journey. There were a few of those, they call them "weeding out" classes. And those were fun. Science isn't my strong suit. I'm more of a social science individual. I've always done really well with the human development and sociology, or psychology and stuff. And so those were difficult, but I still got through.

And then the extracurriculars, that's honestly where I truly came to love the premed process. Because I've always been one where I look at, you know, it's important to get to your goal and reach that destination, but it's what you become in the process that is crucial. And it was those extracurricular activities that helped me become the man I am now and developed me to get to this point.

And so I first started off by doing a lot of volunteering. You know, you have those typical volunteering, research, and different paths that a lot of premeds do. And I've always been one where I need to find something I enjoy. If I don't enjoy it, I'm going to have a really rough time doing it and truly loving it. And so I started off at a women's shelter up in Logan.

Dr. Chan: Okay.

Eddie: And I volunteered there for about two and a half years, and it was the most incredible . . .

Dr. Chan: Were you doing counseling, or what were you doing?

Eddie: No. I was just helping out with . . . I was on the crisis hotline taking in calls.

Dr. Chan: That's a little counseling.

Eddie: Yeah, I guess, a little bit. Well, actually I did do a little counseling. I did a lot of child counseling. The mothers would go to their women's groups, so I would take all the kids and we would do our own type of children's counseling group setting.

Dr. Chan: Cool.

Eddie: That was phenomenal. I would go back into the shelter and work with families, interact with the kids and mothers, and then just run a bunch of different errands that the shelter needed and assist that way.

But probably my all-time favorite was the . . . let's see. What was it called? Rape Prevention Education. I would go to high schools and they would teach girls protective techniques, like combat . . . I guess combat skills or something in case they . . .

Dr. Chan: Defense skills.

Eddie: Defense skills, there we go. I was trying to find the word.

Dr. Chan: Maneuvers.

Eddie: Yeah. And so I'd get beat up. We would teach them and I'd put on this red padded suit and they would just beat the snot out of me.

Dr. Chan: They'd for the eyes, the groin, the nose.

Eddie: Oh, yeah, plenty. And so that was probably my all-time favorite because you're teaching these individuals skills that can save them in the future.

Dr. Chan: That's fascinating. How did you get into that stuff?

Eddie: I was researching. I'm like, "Okay, I need some community service," and it just popped up one day. And I called in and it was . . . yeah, it was probably one of the greatest decisions I've made. And so I did that.

Research, I worked in the . . . let's see. What was it? It was a childhood athletic lab where they worked with . . . they researched parents' involvement with their children's athletics.

Dr. Chan: Okay.

Eddie: And so I got to crunch numbers and look at things that way. That was fascinating. And what else? I was in school for so long I feel like there are so many odds and ends that I did just to get exposure to different aspects of . . .

Dr. Chan: But it sounds like there were a lot of people that were helping you, rallying to your cause, pushing you forward.

Eddie: Very much so, yeah. Especially Yvonne because . . . I would go to her all the time and be like, "Okay, I don't know what I'm doing. Where do I go with this? How do I go about this?" And she would spell things out. We sat multiple times just talking and discussing things.

Dr. Chan: And then your wife, you mentioned your wife.

Eddie: Yes.

Dr. Chan: So you met her up in Logan?

Eddie: I met her my last semester, or in my last year of school, towards the end of my . . . yeah.

Dr. Chan: In Logan or back in American Fork?

Eddie: In Logan.

Dr. Chan: In Logan.

Eddie: Yeah.

Dr. Chan: So when you told her you wanted to go to med school, what was that conversation like?

Eddie: Oh my goodness.

Dr. Chan: Was she super jazzed or like, "Oh my gosh"?

Eddie: I don't think she fully understood what it entails. But she's always been supportive. She's my rock and she definitely is one where if I'm getting out of line and I'm not working as hard as I need to, she's like, "Hey, you need to get your butt in gear. Let's kick it up, because you're not showing that you're going to be able to do this." And so that's always been a good driving force.

And yeah, bringing it up to her the first time, she's like, "Oh, that's really cool." Because her family's really . . . all my in-laws are very . . . education is very important to them. And going places and stuff has been very important.

Dr. Chan: How did you guys meet?

Eddie: We actually met in a basketball class.

Dr. Chan: Oh, okay.

Eddie: So we have a little PE basketball classes up at Utah State. I took it and we ended up playing after class a few times with a couple buddies. And it took a little bit because she didn't notice me. I didn't notice her. She was just some cool girl that . . . she was this tall girl that would play basketball.

Dr. Chan: Yeah. Great jump shot.

Eddie: Oh, yeah, good jump shot. She can shoot it from deep. It's funny. She's six feet. She doesn't really have any post moves. But she can shoot it from three-point all day and her defense is locked down. So we'd play and I just got to notice her more like, "Huh." My buddy, he's like, "You know what? You should ask her out." I'm like, "Maybe I will." And then I did and best decision of my life.

Dr. Chan: Awesome. And I think at Utah State you did some radio stuff?

Eddie: I did.

Dr. Chan: Yeah.

Eddie: Oh my gosh, yes.

Dr. Chan: So how did you get into that? Because you do have the smooth, sultry voice.

Eddie: I've had so many people tell me that, even in high school and stuff. They're like, "Your voice would be perfect for radio." I had no idea how to get into radio. I still would love to get into radio and figure out . . . and I love sports.

So I had a talk show at Utah State, at U Radio, that was all about sports. I'd always walk by, because it's down in the main student center. You'd walk by the radio station. And so I'm like, "You know what? Maybe I'll figure out someone I can talk to, to maybe see if I can jump on the radio." And found somebody and they're like, "Hey, we're looking for some sports talk show hosts and stuff." Yeah, jumped on it and had a couple cohosts. Oh, it was a blast.

Dr. Chan: So it wasn't right after games. It was during the week?

Eddie: Yeah, it was during the week.

Dr. Chan: And you'd kind of like analyze it, break it down, projections kind of thing?

Eddie: Yeah. We weren't really supposed to talk a lot about the actual college sports because there are a lot of rules and regulations with stuff like that. We couldn't interview players and things because all the contracts. I don't even know how that works. But we would talk about the upcoming week. We would make our picks for the NFL, college, big college games.

Dr. Chan: Okay, so it wasn't just Aggie sports? It was everything?

Eddie: Yeah, it was everything. Yeah, football, basketball were our main things. We'd talk a little baseball and stuff, but yeah, we had certain sections that we would . . . what was it called? Bystander Opinion or something? Me and one of my cohosts, we didn't see eye to eye on a few different topics, and so we'd always debate. And we would pull individuals from outside in and we'd be like, "Hey, what's your take? Whose side are you on here?" And we would take a few and the winner would get bragging rights for the week and stuff.

Dr. Chan: Did you have people call in?

Eddie: They couldn't figure out the phone systems.

Dr. Chan: Okay.

Eddie: It was funny, though. My stepdad would always . . .

Dr. Chan: I've listened to a little talk radio sports. Not you guys, unfortunately. But that's where you get some of the very interesting takes.

Eddie: Yes.

Dr. Chan: When people call in with very interesting opinions about things, yeah.

Eddie: My family would listen in, especially my stepdad. He religiously would listen in. And he'd always be texting me. And so he would text me certain things on the topics we were talking about and I would chime in. I'd be like, "Oh, [Nappy 00:20:30] says this about this topic," and stuff. So it was kind of like that, but no. Yeah, I wish we would have had the phones because he would have called in all the time.

Dr. Chan: Yeah. All right. Eddie, you're doing great at Utah State. A lot of different activities. Yvonne's helping you. What was your strategy going into the med school application process? Did you apply to a lot of schools? A few schools since you were getting married, since you just met Taya?

Eddie: Taya.

Dr. Chan: Did you kind of want to stay local? I mean, what was the strategy going in?

Eddie: Goodness. It was just get into college, or to med school, "Let's just get in." And so I looked at my application and I was trying to figure out, "Okay, how do I rank?"GPA was pretty good. MCAT score, that really . . . I took it right after I graduated in 2017 and I literally bombed it. It was really rough. And so I waited a year, took a gap year, and that's when I actually found . . . I was working on my application, studying for the MCAT, getting things going that way. And then took the MCAT in 2018, did okay.

Dr. Chan: Did better.

Eddie: Did a lot better, but it was still where it comes to the average of the nation and stuff, I'm like, "Oh, I don't know how this is going to work, but I'm going to apply." And I looked into D.O. schools, I looked into M.D. schools, and I just started sending out my applications. So all summer I just spent hours upon hours working on applications and . . .

Dr. Chan: Do you remember how many you sent out?

Eddie: Oh my gosh.

Dr. Chan: More than 10? More than 30?

Eddie: It was probably in the 20s.

Dr. Chan: Okay. Cha-ching.

Eddie: Yeah. Well, what's nice is when you grow up with little money, there are fee assistance programs. The AAMC has a fee assistance that will help you, and that really saved my bank. I'd been saving up money for this process. And even with the money I'd saved up, with the fee assistance, my bank account just tanked. And so I was very grateful for that. It allows you to send a certain number of applications out, and then you can get fee waivers for secondary applications and stuff. So that did save me a lot.

So I did that. But yeah, honestly it was mostly time. I'd be okay if I sent a little bit more money and didn't have to write all these applications because . . . oh my goodness.

Dr. Chan: It's exhausting.

Eddie: Yes.

Dr. Chan: So 20 or so applications. How many interview offers started to come in?

Eddie: So I was later in the process. First off, I took the MCAT in . . . I think it was July, June or July. So I didn't get my application out until end of July, early August, which by that time people are already starting to get offers and stuff. And so I was nervous that I wasn't going to get anything.

But I ended up with . . . let's see. My first interview was out in the Uniformed Services University. And then I came here, was my second one. I had one in a D.O. school out in Texas. And then I had one, an offer, in a Virginia school, middle of nowhere. I decided to decline that one because, one, I had no idea . . . I did not want to live in the middle of nowhere. But then also I had one at Meharry Medical School. And so I had five offers.

Dr. Chan: Okay.

Eddie: Went to four of them, and then I got into three schools.

Dr. Chan: So why Utah? Why did you choose this place? What sealed the deal for you?

Eddie: Yes. Well, what was interesting . . .

Dr. Chan: Especially as someone who wanted to go out of state.

Eddie: Oh, I wanted to. Well, what was nice, Taya was all about just, "Let's get in." She was all for going out of state. She was so excited to leave if we were to leave, or stay if we were to stay. She didn't care. "Let's just start this next journey in our process."

So I first got into a school out in Texas. There's a D.O. school out there and I was just stoked. I got wait-listed here, and so I didn't really know I was even going to get in. So I was just planning on going to . . .

Dr. Chan: Interesting. Okay.

Eddie: Yeah, I was planning on going to Texas. I went out to Meharry. I got in there. But did not really like the school. Just the culture about the place, it just did not vibe with me very well.

Dr. Chan: Very East Coasty, yeah.

Eddie: Yeah. And even the interview just turned me off because it was very disorganized. It almost seemed like it was just thrown together. And so I just got a bad vibe about that, the location of it. Yeah. And so they offered me. I just declined it, because I'd already gotten into the school in Texas.

Dr. Chan: Okay.

Eddie: And so me and Taya were planning on going out to Texas, and we actually had made plans to go out to Texas. And we were going to visit. I think it was June 1st we were flying out. Well, I think it was like May 16th or 17th I get a call from Dr. Chan.

Dr. Chan: I remember talking to you.

Eddie: Oh my gosh.

Dr. Chan: You were very, very happy.

Eddie: Well, I was dumbfounded because . . .

Dr. Chan: A little, I think, shocked. Yeah.

Eddie: Yeah. It was funny. I remember exactly where I was. I was in my extra room studying, or working on applications actually. I can't remember what I was doing, but I do remember where I was. And it was early in the morning and I was just . . . my wife was like, "Hey, you got a phone call." And I look on it, "University of Utah School of Medicine." I'm like, "Oh, no. Is this seriously . . ." I answer the phone. "Hey, is this Edward Holloway?" "Yes." "This is Dr. Chan." My mouth just drops. My wife's just sitting there like, "Oh my goodness."

And so then it was a deciding process. Do we go out to Texas or do we go to Utah? You know, we went out to Texas, we saw it, and we're like, "You know what? This is an awesome place." We love Texas. The school, though, it's a brand new school. I think they're in their third year this year. And just their curriculum and everything, it just didn't really . . . I don't know. It didn't sit with me very well. And I remember coming up here for the interview. I just loved it. And we also have family here.

Dr. Chan: Yeah.

Eddie: And so tuition's cheaper because it's in state. Also, the university is just a phenomenal medical school. And it's funny because back in high school . . . we're going back now. When I first decided I wanted to be a doctor, I started rooting for The U because they had a medical school.

Dr. Chan: Wow.

Eddie: And just rooting for them in sports.

Dr. Chan: I don't think you can do that in American Fork.

Eddie: Oh, no. Well, the thing was, too, everyone was BYU fans.

Dr. Chan: It's kind of like the seat of Utah County.

Eddie: Oh my gosh, yes. Everyone was BYU fans and they just irritated me. Because BYU fans, there's just something about them that just irritates the heck out of me. Oh my gosh. And there's just this BYU pride that I get a sickening taste in my mouth. And so I'm like, "I'm not rooting for BYU." I didn't even know about Utah State. "Utah had a medical school. I'm going to root for Utah." And so that was also . . .

It was kind of like a dream to get into The University of Utah. And they've always been, I remember, a top 50 medical school, even back in high school for me, like 14, 15 years ago. And so I'm just like, "You know what? Utah is an awesome school. The education will be top notch. The location, though it's in Utah, we have family here." My wife was pregnant, as well, at the time, so I'm like, "Okay, that would be support there." And all these things, I'm just like, "You know what? Can I bear another four winters in Utah? Yeah." And so that was the decision.

Dr. Chan: Okay. And how is your first semester going?

Eddie: Oh my goodness. Like I mentioned earlier, it's the journey. You become something in the process. And this has been such a molding semester. I'd had two years off. The closest thing I had to education was teaching preschool. So I taught preschool for the year prior to med school, and that does not prepare you for med school. I mean, it was awesome. The character development was phenomenal. But when it comes to all of the information that they throw on you, I was not ready for this.

And I'd also taken all my premed classes really quickly in my undergrad, so it had been . . . I think 2014 was the last time I took some science classes. So it's been a lot of trial and error and figuring out, one, how to learn. Two, they always talk about you're drinking from a fire hose.

Dr. Chan: Yeah.

Eddie: Didn't fully understand that until they threw us into the weeds of things. And literally, that's a really good representation of what it feels like, all the information they throw at you.

And over the course of this time, it's kicked my butt. Hands down kicked my butt. It's been a struggle. And there are nights where I'm like, "I don't think I can do this." Especially in the beginning, I was like, "I'm just going to fail. I'm not going to make it. There is no way this is even possible." And as time's gone on, I've come to learn how I'm learning, been able to grasp the material a little bit better.

I'm figuring this out a little late, but I'm grateful for just how foundations, the first semester of medical school, is run and the focus on, "Figure out how you learn. Figure out how you're going to do this. Build that foundation so that you can better prepare for the next few years."

And so, like I said, it's been a trying process. It's been probably one of the hardest things I've had to do, and I've learned more in the past three months than I have probably in my lifetime, but it's been great.

Dr. Chan: Any pleasant surprises the first semester?

Eddie: You know, it's more than just school. It's more than just sitting down in a class learning material. You're also interacting with patients. They call it clinical methods and stuff.

Dr. Chan: Clinical Method Curriculum, yeah. CMC.

Eddie: Yeah. So when you're learning that, I was pleasantly surprised at how well I did. I mean, I've always been good with people. I was a waiter for 11 years of my life and stuff. I interact with people really well. But to see how it translates into medicine and being able to interact with people and do certain skills on them, it was nice to see, "Hey, I'm not completely hopeless when it comes to medical school. There are some aspects that I'm really good at." That's helped me and given me strength to keep going.

Dr. Chan: That's been reassuring.

Eddie: Yes. It's like, "You know what? I do belong here." Even if I'm still trying to figure out the whole academic side of things, you know how to work with people, you know how to make them feel comfortable and make it so that they know that you're going to take care of them. And so now it's just taking this information and learning the proper academics to benefit them even more.

Dr. Chan: Well, Eddie, I'm just so happy that you're here. I just see you around the library sometimes and you just seem to be doing really well. And I know it's been a big adjustment with all the material, but I'm just glad that you're here.

And I guess my last question is, Eddie, what would you say to anyone out there listening who's maybe on the fence, if they're not sure if they want to apply to med school or not, or maybe struggling a bit and they're not sure . . . you know, they've hit the wall. What would you say to them? What advice would you give to them?

Eddie: Oh my goodness. You will continually hit walls in med school and just in life in general. I've hit so many walls in my upbringing, my scholastic career, and even socially. Just every aspect, you're going to hit walls. What's important is how you get over them or how you break through them.

And if you really feel like medicine would be a good career for you, go for it. You're going to hit walls. You're going to struggle, but that's the journey. And you learn and grow. And as clichÈ as it sounds, you pick yourself up, you dust yourself off, and you learn, you grow from your failures. And that couldn't be more true in medicine.

You know, it's going to be hard, but nothing worthwhile is going to be easy. If it was just handed to me and med school was just a breeze, I wouldn't be where I'm at or wouldn't have grown to the degree that I have.

And I'm actually very appreciative for the walls I've hit, the struggles I've gone through, and even all the doubts that I've had to becoming a doctor, because there are many times I'm like . . . in undergrad, I was like, "I'm not doing this. I don't want to be a doctor. I don't want to go down this path anymore." But I stuck through it, and by doing so, it solidified even more my desire, which then, as you get going further along, you see how much that has impacted your drive and your desire.

Those problems, those walls, those failures, they add fuel to the fire if you allow them to. So for those out there that are on the fence or they're struggling and stuff, just keep going. There are resources out there that can help you. Push through, fight, and by doing so, you're going to thank yourself in the long run.

If I could look back on past Eddie many years ago, I'd be like, "You know what? Thank you for keeping going. You've done so well."

Has it sucked? Oh my gosh, yes. But you know what? I am who I am now because I sucked it up. And it was miserable. I'm like, "You know what? I'm going to bear through this." And so, yeah, I would probably say that.

Dr. Chan: Beautiful, Eddie. Well, we'll have to have you come back on the pod and get updates as you go through.

Eddie: Oh, definitely.

Dr. Chan: And then maybe next time, we can talk a little bit more sports, because I would love to have your hot takes on things.

Eddie: Oh, heck yes. I would gladly.

Dr. Chan: Do you still have time to kind of follow sports, or is school a little too busy?

Eddie: Oh, no, I've got some time. Yeah, I have a little time.

Dr. Chan: Okay. All right. Well, I mean next time. Eddie, thank you for coming on. Thank you for taking a break from your studies. And we're going to have you come back because I want to hear more about your journey in med school and how it goes.

Eddie: That would be great, yes. I appreciate your time. This has been a dream. It's so funny because I look back and I remember you'd come to Utah State so many times and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that's Dr. Chan." We would worship you because you're the guy that gets us into med school. Now I'm here talking with you.

Dr. Chan: Yvonne's the one that helped you get into med school.

Eddie: It's true, but you're the one looking at our application and you're like, "Hey, we want you."

Dr. Chan: It's the committee. Well, Eddie, I'm so glad you're here.

Eddie: Thank you so much, sir. I appreciate you.

Announcer: Thanks for listening to "Talking Admissions and Med Student Life" with Dr. Benjamin Chan, the ultimate resource to help you on your journey to and through medical school. A production of The Scope Health Sciences Radio, online at thescoperadio.com.