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Scot: Troy, I've got a question for you.

Troy: Yes.

Scot: Are you emotionally available?

Troy: If I even knew what that meant, I would know how to answer it. Let's start with that first. I don't even know what you're asking me, Scot. Am I available to your emotions? I don't know.

Scot: Mitch, are you emotionally available?

Mitch: I guess it's how . . . I think I'm more emotionally available than I once was, but again it's . . . Yeah, I don't know, man. Maybe.

Scot: Troy, it sounds like Mitch knows what that means.

Troy: I know. Mitch apparently got past Step 1, which I haven't.

Scot: We might have to defer to him. This is "Who Cares About Men's Health," giving you information, inspiration, and a different interpretation of men's health. "Emotional Availability: I Guess It's a Thing." That's the name of this episode.

Today's crew. He brings the MD. It's Dr. Troy Madsen.

Troy: I'm trying to be available to you, Scot. Yes, I am here physically. I don't know that I'm emotionally available, but I am physically available today.

Scot: The BS to his MD, that's what I bring to the show. My name is Scot Singpiel. And he just generally makes the podcast better, it's Mitch Sears.

Mitch: How are you doing today, Scot?

Dr. Jones: Very nice.

Mitch: Look at me. Emotionally available. Boom, boom, boom.

Scot: And that lady voice you hear on this very manly podcast is one of my most favorite people ever. She is the host of one of our sister podcasts or brother podcasts. I don't know if they have a gender really. But "The Seven Domains of Women's Health." You can find that on thescoperadio.com. It's Dr. Kirtly Parker Jones. Welcome, Dr. Jones.

Dr. Jones: It's an honor to be here.

Scot: All right. Troy, I'm going to tell you how we ended up at this place of emotional availability. We were on Dr. Jones' podcast about men and crying, which, conveniently, when we told you about it, you're like, "Oh, I've got something that day."

Troy: I promise I did have something that day.

Scot: Yeah, I'm sure you did have something.

Troy: I did.

Scot: So Dr. Jones brought up . . . she said, "You know what?" We said, "We'd love to have you on the show. What could we talk about?" And she said, "Well, why don't we talk about emotional availability in men for their partners?" And Mitch and I are both like, "Yeah, that sounds great." And then Mitch and I both went to Wikipedia to find out what that meant, and we still don't know.

So, Dr. Jones, let's start right there. What does being emotionally available mean? And how does that tie back into health, men's or otherwise?

Dr. Jones: Great question. It might mean things to different people differently, but I would consider that emotional availability is a state of mind where you are able to recognize the emotions in your own self. Then you might be willing to express them, label them, and help regulate them. And then, with the practice of understanding your own emotions, you are more able to understand, or at least listen, to the emotions of your partner.

So, developmentally, it's been suggested that because girls are raised to be like their mothers -- now these are old-fashioned developmental theories -- they are more tied in with their mother's emotional state. Boys are raised to be more like boys, therefore not like their mother and therefore somewhat distant.

So you can say that the issue of emotional availability is a new one, but it's as old as "men are from Mars and women are from Venus." It's the difference between men and women. And I think that those sexual stereotypes need to be thrown away because there are certainly women who are not emotionally available and there are lots of men who are.

Troy: So why is this referred to as emotional availability? Because it sounds like it's a lot more . . . like you said, really the first step is it's more emotional awareness, like understanding our own emotions, and I guess then it makes us available. But sounds like it's a lot of awareness involved.

Dr. Jones: It is. You have to be emotionally available to yourself first. So there's some work to be done or you need to raise them that way in terms of your children. There's a great Crosby, Stills &Nash song, which none of you have even heard because you're too young. "Teach your children well, their father's hell did slowly go by." So I think we need to teach our children to be emotionally available by our own examples and by verbalizing how we are feeling, and so our children can feel.

Once you are emotionally available to yourself, then you are more willing to be emotionally able to listen to, reflect, work with your partner's emotions.

Now, I consider it kind of a girly whine. "You're not emotionally available to me." But in fact, if you're not emotionally available to yourself, this concept of emotional intelligence, then a lot of anger, fear, anxiety goes unaddressed, and it makes people sick. Their immune system doesn't work so well. Their blood pressure goes up. A lot of chronic diseases in men might be tied to inner frustrations, anger, fear, anxiety that they aren't labeling, expressing, and able to process.

Now, when you live with someone, it's nice to be able to at least empathize when circumstances make them sad and reflect on them. You might ask your partner, "Would you like me to be emotionally available to you?"

Scot: Oh, boy.

Troy: Yeah, that was going to be my next question for you. How effective is this really? And do you recommend it? I totally get being aware of our own emotions and recognizing them and acknowledging them, but it seems like it may not go over super well if we're saying to our partner, "You seem really angry right now." I don't know. "I sense a lot of anger."

Scot: As Dr. Jones was talking, Troy and Mitch, I'm sensing this recurring theme that we've talked about, right? That sometimes as men, we don't recognize what our emotions are. We don't label them. We don't really think, "Well, why am I feeling this?" We don't sit with them. We don't want to deal with them, right? And we know the detriment that has on our health, but I'm starting to see that maybe that could have detriment on relationships, which ties back in to emotional health again.

Before we get to Troy's question, Mitch, you wanted to ask something?

Mitch: Oh, yeah. As you were explaining being emotionally available to yourself, it really kind of rung true with me because I've been starting my own little mental health journey. And one of the things that I kind of ran into is one of my very first meetings with my latest therapist was like, "Hey, I have a tightness in my chest. I don't know what I'm feeling. I can't think straight, whatever." And it took him talking me through the physical sensations to recognize the emotions that I was feeling. He's like, "You sound like you are anxious. You sound like you are worried. You sound like you're whatever." It's like I couldn't even recognize that in myself, right?

And what was interesting about it is that constant anxiety, that constant kind of stress and worry that I was experiencing, but not recognizing, I wasn't aware enough to figure something out to fix it.

And secondly, it was taking a real impact on my health. I was having everything from problems with clenched jaws, to higher blood pressure, to all sorts of issues that immediately started to change as soon as I started to at least recognize the emotions and was able to start problem-solving, which I think is the step I was trying to jump to without even recognizing what the problem was, like a typical man.

Dr. Jones: Wow. Mitch, that's amazing.

Scot: Do you feel a little like a Neanderthal that you're like . . .

Mitch: Yes.

Scot: . . . "What is this strange emotion? Oh, it's anxiety."

Mitch: I do.

Scot: To me, it sounds silly, but you know what? I found myself in that same situation, too. It's kind of crazy, isn't it, that we wouldn't know what these emotions are?

Mitch: Well, I felt dumb and embarrassed almost. Luckily, I love and trust my therapist, but there was this kind of situation where it was like, "Ugh, what do you mean? Of course, it is." I've been dealing with this for a year now, and, "Oh, of course it is. Duh."

Dr. Jones: Well, remember, for men, they may have had it modeled. So the only primary emotion, which is love and happiness, and fear and anxiety, but the only one you may have seen exhibited in your life was your father's anger, or maybe your mom wasn't available either. So that's the only one you've got that you might actually have a label to, because you saw the men around you get angry. And that one you get, but there's a lot more inside.

Primary emotions are ones that immediately cause a physiologic response. And if you have the physiology, but you don't have the word, then you can't really dig down into why this is happening. Is it good or is it bad? I mean, I hope you kind of know when you're happy.

Mitch: Sure.

Dr. Jones: I hope that one comes up and you're like, "Wow. I feel happy," instead of, "Gosh, why does my chest feel a little bigger and why do I feel I can have more air? Oh, maybe I'm happy."

So you may not have had it modeled for you. It may not have been taught to you, or bad things could have happened when you were growing up that made you stuff everything down. So, for men and for women, the difficulty of being emotionally available to yourself is that you either didn't have it modeled or you stuffed it someplace because it hurt.

And those kinds of things in a relationship . . . I think your concept, Troy, if you say, "Gee, you look like you're angry," what I have learned from my husband and a 50-year relationship is that I cannot guess what he's emotionally feeling because sometimes I guess wrong and it does not go well.

So if I say, "How are you feeling?" or, "Are you feeling something hard right now?" then he might tell me. I want someone that when I start to cry or when I get upset about something can come over and at least put his arm around me. He doesn't have to say, "Oh, I see you're so sad because something has happened to our son," or your car isn't working, or whatever. At least I want him to come over and recognize that I am feeling sad or I'm feeling anxious or worried, and he'll put his arm around me, which says, "I know you're not feeling very good right now and I'm here for you."

So that's what being emotionally intelligent . . . I want him to at least recognize when I'm in emotional distress. And likewise, if he's in emotional distress, I'd rather not walk around the house on tenterhooks thinking, "Oh my God, what is wrong? Is it my fault? Is it his fault? Whose fault is it? Did I do something wrong?" It's better for me to kind of know.

You don't get to 50 years together unless you've kind of, sort of worked things out, unless you're just strapped down and you have no choice.

Troy: It sounds like then you're saying in terms of emotional availability, it's one thing for us to identify the emotions in ourselves, but it's maybe not the best idea to try to identify the emotions in others. But at least make ourselves available to them and at least tell them that maybe something seems off and at least open the door if they want to talk about those emotions that they're experiencing.

Dr. Jones: Exactly. Because if you come up to me and say, "Gosh, I think you're angry," that's going to piss me off.

Scot: No, no, no.

Troy: Even if you are angry.

Scot: It's always a question. "How do you feel about that? How are you feeling?"

Troy: Exactly.

Mitch: One of the things that I had trouble with for a long time is I'd be . . . I'm a chronic projector, and I'd be like, "Are you mad at me?"

Dr. Jones: Exactly.

Mitch: "Are you mad that I did something like this?" Then I'm also assuming, right? I'm assuming you're feeling a certain way and I'm also assuming that it's my fault, right? And that's not a good dynamic to have with anyone.

Dr. Jones: No. Don't assume that you know what they're thinking. But being emotionally available means, "I feel like something is hard right now. Can we talk about it?" or, "Is there something I can do to help you with this sense at being unease, lack of ease?" "Well, yeah, the planet is exploding and there's global warming and we're getting shot in streets and . . ." "Wow. Yeah, boy, that is awful. Do you want to talk to me about that some more?"

Scot: So what I'm getting here, emotional availability, first of all, as men, we have to begin to recognize our own emotions and identify things other than anger.

And I loved what you said. A lot of times we talk about when you need to seek a health professional, whether that be a licensed clinical social worker or somebody else. And a lot of times, as men, we talk about to have some tools to deal with things.

But I think another thing that Mitch just pointed out is to maybe start recognizing emotions that we've never been taught about as men before in some instances. A lot of men maybe have, and I think things are getting better. I don't know if you'd agree or not, Dr. Jones.

Dr. Jones: I do.

Scot: Yeah, as we move forward. I can speak from my own experience. I came from very stoic people. So I probably don't know half the things I feel most of the time. So the first thing you've got to do is recognize your own emotions, and then that's when you can start to become emotionally available to somebody else. Show us what that might look like.

Dr. Jones: Well, how it might look like in yourself, it's what I call the RULER project, which we've done a podcast on actually, which is recognize that you're feeling something that's uncomfortable or something. You're feeling something. Understand what it was. What was the trigger that made you feel that way? Can you label it? Can you give it a word? Can you explain it or express it to others?

That's the step that . . . if someone in my family were upset and they said, "I'm just feeling upset. I'm feeling so sad," or, "I'm feeling really angry," those are the kinds of things that really help someone not get in your way. Or, "Can I help you with that?" or, "What can I do to make this better?" which you probably can't, or, "I want to hear about this because you're important to me."

That's what it looks like when someone is able to say, "This is what I'm feeling and it doesn't feel good," or, "This is what I'm feeling and it feels really good," or, "I'm really happy. And it makes me anxious because I'm so happy."

And then the other person is able to then say, "That explains why you've been stomping around the house all day," or whatever. That kind of opens up a little bit of a dialogue so that people can value each other.

And for guys, in particular, for who modeling emotional intelligence has not been really made clear to them, there's been a lot of shame. So if you feel anxious or if you feel sad or if you feel fear, it's not been okay.

When I look at the uber sort of masculine men on movies, those guys are just . . . I think of the new Jack Reacher. I think, "Wow. I would never want a relationship with that guy. I see his anger. Boy, oh, boy. But I don't see anything else in him."

So I think that many people, men and women, are looking for a long-term relationship, which means, "I want someone to be part of my emotional life, not just my physical life. Not just my cooking or the house that we share. It needs to be a little bit more than that."

Now, once again, not all women are terribly emotionally available, and some men are very. And for some women, they may attach themselves. Women say, "Well, why do I pick these guys? Why do I keep picking these guys?" Well, they also may have this kind of distance modeled for them in their father and it's all they know.

Or they think that not showing emotions is strength and they want to attach themselves to strength because they are anxious. They're not self-confident. They want that burden laid on the guy in their relationship or the other person in their relationship. And having one person be the strong one and the other one being the emotional one. That's kind of hard. You ought to share this stuff.

Mitch: I had a question kind of relating back to mine. I love the RULER technique. I think that, for me, I really appreciate acronyms and strategies and whatever. But that L, that label, I have run into feelings that I don't have a name for, and the best I can do . . . And it's probably modeling and I have to work with my specialist to kind of figure out what it is. But you come up with, "I feel oogie. I feel meh. I feel blah."

And so is there . . . I don't know. I just feel like such a novice here where it's just like, "Is there a guide?" Is there something that I can see all the feelings I could be having or emotion should I should be having and I can kind of point to that.

Troy: It's like the pain chart, the little kid pain chart. "That's my pain right there."

Mitch: The sad face.

Troy: The sad crying face. Yeah. We need the equivalent for men's emotions or something.

Dr. Jones: Well, there actually is an emotional wheel.

Mitch: What?

Dr. Jones: So the people who looked at primary emotions say, "These are the ones that have physiologic consequences and they're immediate." So they happen to you even before you can give it a label. It just is an immediate response fear. Maybe love, happiness, anxiety, you know when it happens because it happens so fast. There are secondary emotions which are combinations of primary and secondary emotions.

Now, what they might feel like? Any strong emotion can raise your pulse and raise your heart rate. Although true Agapeic love, I think, actually can make your . . . I mean, the love of a child, the love of a very good friend can bring your blood pressure down. Holding hands with someone that you love, that actually brings your blood pressure and your pulse down. And they've done this in MRIs and they've looked at what parts of the brain are activated.

Getting a good therapist is a really . . . You say, "I don't know what the name is I'm feeling, but this is how I feel. This happened to me, and this is why I felt like that." If you could say how you feel and you understand what made you feel like that, you might be able to come up with words.

Oogie, I need a little help with oogie. I got oogie. I can kind of feel oogie. I feel oogie below my diaphragm. It's not above my diaphragm. I don't feel it in my heart. I feel it below my diaphragm. Well, what were the things that made you feel oogie? If you told me what made you feel that way, I might be able to put a label on it.

But there is a very beautiful wheel, emotional wheel, that gives people a . . . I can send you guys a link for this and you can work on it, if you'd like. You can spin it around, see how you feel.

Scot: How do you start that conversation if you're the partner and you're thinking . . . Well, actually it could go either way, right? So you're the partner and you're thinking, "You know what? I would like to explore this idea of emotional availability in my existing relationship." Or you're the partner that maybe you're thinking, "I wonder if my partner actually would find more satisfaction in the relationship out of this." I mean, it could work either way. How would you start to progress forward? Because even that name carries baggage, right? Emotional availability to some people could sound . . .

Dr. Jones: It does. It means somebody isn't. It means blame, blame, blame already.

Scot: Or it could just be like, "Oh, that's touchy-feely, I'm not into that."

Dr. Jones: Well, you can just say, "I've been thinking about this." Either one, the person who's got more emotions or the person who's got less emotions, "I've been thinking about this and our relationship is important to me. I do or don't want it to be . . ."

"It's uncomfortable when you cry at the table, but I don't want to shut you off or I don't want to be blocked off from you. So I'd like to learn how to talk about this." This is the guy who sees his wife cry about stuff or his girlfriend or his boyfriend or whatever, and he just doesn't get it. But he loves this person. So, "I see you cry and I need some help. I need some words. Are you willing to work with me about that?"

And then if you're the person with more emotions, "I've been thinking about this and I love you and our relationship is really important to me, but I need to feel that you're tied with me to the things that I feel strongly about. Can we talk about it? I cry at the table because I'm sentimental. All we have to do is talk about my family or our son, and I start to cry, and I don't want you thinking it's sad because it's not sad. It's sentimental. Can we talk about what words I use and how it might make me feel and what I want from you when I feel like this?"

So I think it's better than rather than saying "you" words . . . You guys already know this. "You do this, or you don't do this, or you are feeling this." It says, "This is the way I feel. And can we talk about it?"

I think it would be good if we had a long-term relationship based on the support of each other's feelings, not just our physical needs, or our financial needs, or our spiritual needs, or you name it. I'll go through all the 7 Domains without you guys even knowing it.

Troy: See, Dr. Jones, I want to take a moment here just to put this in perspective. Our most recent episode was on poop.

Dr. Jones: Yeah. And you know what? Your emotions can come right through with your poop, because people who are really anxious can get diarrhea.

Troy: I'm just saying this is hard even for me to think about it. So I am empathizing with any man out there right now who is listening to this and hearing you say these things and saying, "These are things we can say to our partners." This is a stretch. This is tough.

And I agree. I have definitely taken the approach of, for whatever reason, you kind of push emotions down. And it's hard to acknowledge those emotions in a partner and ask them to express those emotions. I think maybe we are afraid of what they're going to say, or we're afraid of being responsible for those emotions or triggering those, or whatever it might be. But yeah, this is a lot harder to talk about than poop. I'll say that.

Scot: So, Troy, question.

Troy: Yes.

Scot: Question for you, Troy. All those things that Dr. Jones just said, if that was coming from your spouse, would you, as a man, with your history, cringe a little bit? Would you be like, "Oh, boy, here we go. I don't know about this. This sounds pretty intense"?

Troy: I would cringe a bit. Yeah. I will say, honestly, I feel like . . . and maybe Laura will disagree. She'll listen to this and be like, "No, you haven't." I will feel like I've made progress there.

I think, like you said, Dr. Jones, the key to this is just acknowledging your own emotions. Often, I've really tried to acknowledge more, "Okay. When am I feeling anger? When am I feeling anxiety? And what's the root of that?" And a lot of times it gets down to, "Oh, I'm sad and it's coming across as anger," or, "I'm anxious. I've got a shift coming up in the ER and I'm feeling anxious about it. And that's coming across as, again, maybe as anger." It seems like a lot of these things come out in men as anger, and I've definitely felt that in myself.

Dr. Jones: They do.

Troy: But again, hearing you say those things, I think, for me, emotional availability has been trying to be more aware of my emotions, and often what the root of . . . Even what may seem the emotion, there's a deeper root to that. And then be willing to express that and talk about it. But it's hard.

Dr. Jones: It is, but the work is worthwhile. Maybe Mitch can even speak to this. It gives you a much broader palette with which to paint the tapestry of your life. When you have some words, some colors to explain the things that you've seen . . . You have a powerfully rich life, Troy, in what you've seen and how you deal with that, the words you use or how you color that, what an amazing life you would lead if you had a little bit of contact with those.

Mitch: And from my perspective to "man it up a little bit" is another tool in the toolbox, right? No, if you don't have the right socket, you can't fix a certain thing on your car.

And so, for me, I knew that I was not in a good place and it wasn't until I was able to actually recognize, discuss, and talk about, even to myself just in my head, the emotions I was feeling, there was no way for me to actually start to work to fix it.

And so if that's the very baseline of at least my . . . Yes, I'm living a more full life. Yes, yes, yes. I feel it every day. But for a part of me, not feeling like garbage all the time and being able to know that I'm taking active steps to fix it, and all it took was a bit of acknowledgement and a bit of vocabulary, has been night and day within the last year.

Dr. Jones: Yeah. Amazing.

Scot: Would you say that there are two aspects . . . I'm picking up two aspects of emotional availability. I think Troy has kind of hit on one, right, which is a man's ability to talk about what they're feeling, thinking, etc. But it's also a person's ability, whether a man or a woman, to be receptive to the emotions of another person. And we haven't really hit on that as much. How can somebody start to work on that?

Dr. Jones: Well, I think once you've learned . . . getting back to starting with yourself, if you can forgive yourself . . . When you say, "This emotional response is normal. It's natural. It's real. I'm an intact human person, and I forgive myself because I felt angry or sad or whatever," then when you realize that someone is feeling that way . . .

In fact, it's often not about you. I think you're afraid you're going to get the downstream effect if you recognize, or at least, "Gee, it looks like things are harder. I feel like you're having a hard day. What can I do for you?" And if they break down and cry, then just go put your arm around them. You don't have to do anything bigger than that for a start. And then if they unload all of it, just say, "I'm listening. I hear you." That may be all that it takes.

Scot: So instead of avoiding it and pretending that's not going on in your life, maybe just acknowledging it would be a good first step.

Dr. Jones: Or don't analyze it. "Boy, I got into trouble." "Oh, I see why you're so angry." "Boy, you could be angry because your dad did this and then your boss did that and you're feeling inadequate. Boy." No, that does not go well because that's all those "you" words. "You're feeling this and you're doing that."

Say, "Wow. I'm so sorry. Can I sit with you a little bit? Talk to me about it." Don't try to analyze. Let them use their words. Just let them know that you're seeing and you're hearing and you want to be there with them, whatever they're feeling. You're not going to run away from it.

Scot: Let's wrap this up. Troy, what did you take away from the episode and what's something that you're going to try based on what you learned today?

Troy: You're putting me on the spot, Scot.

Dr. Jones: Never, never, never do it.

Troy: I know there's someone is listening to this episode.

Mitch: Oh, no.

Scot: What does that somebody want to hear?

Troy: This is really putting me on the spot. That someone probably wants to hear that I will say exactly what Dr. Jones said. Number one, I will not say "you." I will not use a lot of "you" words, which I sometimes have a tendency to do, like say, "You seem angry," or, "You seem sad." And rephrasing that as . . . I wish I could remember exactly how you said it.

Scot: That would be helpful.

Troy: Yeah. "Something seems off." I will say it that way. I'll say, "Something seems off. Is there anything you want to talk about?" Maybe rephrasing things that way and being willing to say that, first of all, and then saying it the right way.

Scot: How about you, Mitch?

Mitch: I feel good that I'm kind of on a journey. I keep using that word. It's so overused. I'm just glad to know that the kind of work that I'm doing right now can lead to a more colorful, more interesting life, and recognize that, as an individual, I feel a lot more than just anger, right? And being able to recognize that, talk about that. I'm hoping that my relationships can be a lot stronger.

Dr. Jones: Yeah, and especially your relationship with yourself. The inner voices that you have that aren't always supportive, they're not always nice voices that you hear, and saying, "Wait a minute. That's not me. That's my inner voice that's saying, 'You're not good enough,' or you're this, that, or the other." Being able to forgive yourself for when you feel a certain way so that you can process and move ahead and take a deep breath. Take 10 deep breaths. It's just a lot easier. You will find yourself feeling better. Mitch, you put it better than I possibly could.

Scot: I think the thing I'm going to take away is I tend to ignore other people in my life, meaning when . . . I don't want to ask, "Hey, something doesn't quite seem right. You want to tell me about it?" because I'm afraid of what I'm going to hear, right? I'm not going to be able to deal with "I'm sad" or "I'm angry" or "I'm whatever." But I think I'm going to try to be brave, and I think I'm going to try to start acknowledging that and doing that and seeing how that works out for me.

Dr. Jones: Be brave. I think about that.

Troy: I like that. Yeah.

Dr. Scot: The firefighters who ran toward the burning building of 9/11. Be brave. Being available is being brave.

Scot: We'll do that, right? Men will run towards the danger like that. But if we think that somebody we care about is angry at us? Oh, man, we're not going to bring that up.

Troy: And I'm also going to say I will not tell whoever this individual is, who I happen to be speaking to, that I'm running toward the burning building on 9/11.

Mitch: Oh, no.

Dr. Jones: Don't do that.

Troy: That would not go over well, but it's a good analogy. We do have to be brave.

Scot: Well, Dr. Jones, I think this is a step in the right direction hopefully for any guy that wants to maybe become more in touch with their own emotions or be more supportive of the emotions of those in our lives. And sometimes our best lessons on the men's health podcast come from wise women such as yourself. So thank you for caring about men's health and being on the show with us today.

Dr. Jones: You're so welcome. It's been great.

Scot: Hey, congratulations. You made it this far. You even made it beyond the end. This is Scot from "Who Cares About Men's Health," and it just dawned on us that if the topic we talked about in this podcast is something that's important to you, and you'd like to perhaps get some emotional availability in your relationships, and you don't know how to have that conversation with your partner, use this podcast as a tool.

Tell them you heard it. Let them listen to it. That way you're starting from some sort of a common place. And then let the discussion go from there. So use this podcast as a tool and share with somebody in your life that you think could benefit from it.

All right. That's it. For real, we're gone this time. Thanks for listening. Thanks for caring about men's health.

This content was originally created for audio. Some elements such as tone, sound effects, and music can be hard to translate to text. As such, the following is a summary of the episode and has been edited for clarity. For the full experience, we encourage you to subscribe and listen— it's more fun that way.

Who Cares About Men’s Health listener Ryan is an educator in Salt Lake. He’s in his mid-forties and in pretty good health. He’s not the typical stroke patient, by any means, but he was surprised to find himself in the hospital undergoing surgery to save his life. The fascinating thing about Ryan’s experience, his stroke symptoms manifested in a very strange way.

A week or so prior to the event, Ryan had been experiencing an earache that just wouldn’t go away. He had gone to his primary care doctor to try and figure out what was causing the earache. No matter what they tried the pain in his ear wouldn’t go away. Ryan had just seen his doctor for a followup visit just two days before he had his stroke.

The symptoms became worse after his anniversary dinner with his wife. Ryan left the restaurant feeling nauseous and dizzy. He rationalized that the symptoms were nothing more than indigestion or a bout of food poisoning.

The next day Ryan’s symptoms only became worse. He woke up feeling really sick. His nausea was so bad he couldn’t keep food or water down. He was extremely dizzy and couldn’t stay standing for long bouts of time.

But he was also starting to experience symptoms that are not common of a stomach bug. He started experiencing severe vertigo and double vision that wouldn’t seem to go away. When he tried to walk it was as if he “had a flat tire on his left side.” He would continually tilt to the left. His balance was extremely off.

After a full day of extreme symptoms - and the urging of his wife - Ryan could no longer rationalize that his symptoms were nothing more than severe stomach flu or related to his earache. After a call to his primary care doctor, he went to the emergency room.

Once in the ER, the physicians did an MRI and found not only a serious aneurysm on the lower back portion of Ryan’s brain but a pretty serious dissection as well.

Ryan spent 14 days in the hospital after surgery. It was a relatively long road to recovery and he still struggles with occasional vertigo. But according to Ryan, the stroke could have been a lot worse. He came away without any particularly debilitating cognitive issues.

Getting to the hospital on time saved his life and his brain. There are More Signs of Stroke Than Just FAST

Time is of the essence when it comes to a stroke. The sooner you can receive treatment, the more likely you are to minimize damage to the brain. As such, it’s important to know the signs of a stroke so you can respond quickly.

The Scope Radio has been talking about the acronym F.A.S.T. for years. It’s a helpful way to remind people of the major signs of a stroke:

• F - Facial Drooping
• A - Arm weakness
• S - Speech difficulties (including slurring, trouble finding words, confusion)
• T - Time is of the essence to get help

But Ryan’s symptoms didn’t fit the FAST acronym. He was experiencing dizziness, nausea, and having vision issues. There are several different ways a stroke can form and impact a person. Not all strokes are caused by deep vein thrombosis. Some can be caused by injury to the head directly. According to Troy, he will often see these injury-related strokes in young people. They will experience trauma from whiplash injuries, sports injuries, falling while skiing or snowboarding, etc.

While we don’t often think of this type of stroke, they can be quite serious. As such, there are additional symptoms you should be on the lookout for beside face drooping, arm weakness, and slurred speech. These include?

• Leg weakness
• Balance Issues
• Vertigo
• Double Vision
• Other vision issues
• Trouble walking
• Severe Headache

If you have a suspicion that you or someone you know may be suffering from a stroke, don’t wait to see if the symptoms will go away. Get to the ER immediately. Call 911 and get an ambulance if you need to. Time is crucial for stroke treatment, so don’t delay. You Should Probably Read that Genetics Test Terms of Service

We’ve all been guilty of quickly scrolling through one of those long irritating user agreements you are forced to scroll through when you install a piece of software on your computer. But when it comes to the Terms of Service Agreement you sign when you take an at-home genetics test, it may be worth taking the time to actually read it.

Scot is still considering whether or not he wants to take a genetics test, so he and the Who Cares guys read through the Terms of Service from one of these testing companies. He found some of the strange, concerning, and occasionally downright terrifying implications that are inside the fine print.

They include concerns about what you may learn about yourself, your identity, the health issues you may face, as well as the legal ramifications you should consider before taking a test.

The guys discuss their thoughts and feelings on the issue. And if you’re still interested in entering to win the genetics test, be sure to enter. Housekeeping - Welcome to the Community

We want to take a moment to welcome all of our new podcast listeners and people who have joined the movement on our Facebook page. We’ve seen a significant increase in both the likes on our Facebook page and listeners of the podcast.

We’re quite excited to have more people joining us on our mission to get men caring about their health. Stay tuned on our social channels. There will be much more community involvement with the show moving forward. Help us come up with ideas and participate in future shows.

If you haven’t liked our Facebook yet, be sure to join. Just Going to Leave This Here

On this episode's Just Going to Leave This Here, Scot learns a new trick to improve his bathroom habits. In other news, Troy enjoyed the Sundance film festival and gives a recommendation for the film Boys State. Talk to Us

If you have any questions, comments, or thoughts, email us at hello@thescoperadio.com.

This content was originally created for audio. Some elements such as tone, sound effects, and music can be hard to translate to text. As such, the following is a summary of the episode and has been edited for clarity. For the full experience, we encourage you to subscribe and listen— it's more fun that way.

It's a common stereotype that men don't talk about their health. That may be why some people believe men don't care about their health. But maybe the reason most men don't talk about their health is because they don't know how to listen to one another.

How would you rate yourself when it comes to your listening skills?

Scot is the son of western South Dakota rancher who grew up mostly an only child. He feels his upbringing and culture has led him to be very uncomfortable talking about difficult things with other people and opening up. He doesn't feel he's a very good listener and constantly tries to solve other people's problems rather than listening.

Troy on the other hand feels like he's a pretty good listener, but he didn't used to be. It took years of experience at his job as an ER physician to learn how to listen out of necessity.

On this episode we're learning how to be a better listener with Kevin Curtis, the Director of Crisis Services with the University of Utah Neuropsychiatric Institute. The 7 Steps to Becoming a Better Listener

Whether you're talking about sports, mental health, or anything in-between, there are a key set of skills that are useful in any conversation. No matter how light or how heavy the topic is, It's important to build a foundation of understanding how to listen. Here are the seven key components of being a better listener"

Step 1: Create a Comfortable Setting and Opportunity to Have a Conversation
The first step to having a meaningful discussion with another person is to create an opportunity to have that discussion in a place you can both be comfortable.

If you believe someone in your life is in need and trying to open up, offer them an opportunity to talk. Invite them out to get a drink. Offer to snag lunch. Go to a ballgame. By offering, you've allowed yourself to be available to listen if they want to talk and by choosing a relaxing setting there will be less pressure and stress on the conversation itself.

And most importantly: After you offer an opportunity to talk, actually go and do it.

Step 2: Talk Less, Listen More
One of the most important parts of listening is to be present in the conversation. Don't let your mind wander and be distracted. Focus on the now. Listen to what they're sharing and be willing to engage.

For many of us, staying present in a conversation is hard, but we may not realize it. One of the most common difficulties with being present is that people keep thinking of what to say next. You will listen to the first part of what the person is sharing, then the rest of your mind is busy thinking about what you should say when they're finished. Or they share a personal problem with you and you immediately begin trying to think of a solution. This is not being present. This is not listening.

It's easy to assume that what you say and contribute during a conversation is the most important, but that's not the case. Sometimes the most meaningful part of a conversation is letting the other person share and be heard.

Remember, it's not about you.

Step 3: Be Okay with Silences
Silences can feel awkward, but they don't have to be. We often try to fill the discomfort that comes from silence with talking, but ultimately halts the conversation from getting any deeper or more meaningful.

Silences allow people to think and gain incite about whatever is being discussed. It gives us a moment to digest new information and consider how it makes us feel. It also gives a chance for us to consider what to say next and questions to ask. It allows us to feel and be vulnerable.

Kevin Curtis explains that he will ask a question then sit in silence for minutes while he waits for a patient to respond. It leads to a deeper understanding between him and the people he talks with. He reminds listeners that some of the most meaningful conversations in life don't have a lot of talking.

Step 4: Ask Good Questions
When you're listening to someone share something difficult, make sure you're asking questions that are there to help you understand what the person is saying. One of the biggest parts of feeling validated is when a person knows that they've been heard and understood.

Show that you're listening and trying to understand by mirroring what they've said with a question. For example, "Here's what I heard, is that what you meant?" or "So you're saying this. Do I have that right?" This is a simple question that show that you've been listening to what they've said and - more importantly - taken steps to make sure you understand them.

If they're discussing a situation you have little to no experience with, you should ask questions about the parts you don't understand. For instance, "That sounds really hard, but I want to understand more. Can you tell me more about this aspect?"

These are both types of active listening. This skill shows the other person that you're hearing what's said, saying something that reflects to show understanding and validating the person who's decided to open up to you.

Step 5: Be Careful When Sharing Your Personal Experience
Sharing your own experience can sometimes be helpful in a tough conversation. It can help build a stronger relationship through sharing an experience. Being vulnerable about your struggles can help validate that the person is not alone with their troubles. In some cases your story can even provide alternative pathways and a potential examples for how to improve their own situation.

However, it's important not to offer solutions. Do not use your own vulnerability to prescribe how the other person should ‘fix' their problems. Do not say something like, "I've gone through something similar. Here's what I did. You should do that." Do not assume what works for you will work for them.

Every person and every situation is different. What works for you may not work for them. Your job is to listen, not fix their problem.

Also, when sharing, be sure to avoid making the conversation about you. Sharing your own story can be really helpful in some cases, but if you take over the conversation, you're not helping them.

Step 6: Do Not Stress About Saying the Right Thing
Far too often we assume that the one hard conversation will be the last. We assume that we only have one shot to make the conversation meaningful to the other person. If we can't say the right thing, at the right time, in the right way - something bad may happen.

That's just not true. In fact, stressing about what saying everything perfectly will take you out of the moment and make you a bad listener. Be present, listen, and honestly participate in the conversation.

You don't have to be the hero of the conversation. There's more benefit to the other person in being heard and validated than any type of advice you could give. Besides, you can always talk more later.

"You'll always have another opportunity," says Kevin. There are no tidy conclusions in life, same goes for conversations. Most of them are just the first step in a much richer ongoing dialogue and a deeper relationship.

Step 7: Validate Them for Being Vulnerable
Opening up to someone else is hard. It takes a lot to be vulnerable to another person. Sharing your feelings isn't weak, it's one of the bravest things a person can do. So let the other person know that.

Thank them for opening up. Show appreciation that the person trusts you.

This small act of acknowledging the other person's vulnerability can open the door to future conversations. An opportunity for you to ask them "How's it going?" and have another enriching discussion.

You'll never find a solution to someone's problems in a single discussion. Treat every difficult conversation as the first step of support. Asking the Hard Questions

If you see signs of depression or suicide in a friend or loved one, having a conversation about it can be especially difficult. When a person is in crisis, it's more important than ever to be brave and be a good listener.

Ask questions that seek to understand how they're feeling rather than deflect the emotional topic. These questions may be extremely uncomfortable to you, but it provides an opportunity for you to get involved and help them get the support they need.

For example, ask things like "Tell me more about how you are feeling. "Are you feeling suicidal?" "Have you had thoughts about ending your life?"

The may seem scary to ask, but they're important to ask if you're going to understand how the situation the other person is in and how fully assess how you can help.

Remember, you are not the solution to their depressive or suicidal thoughts, but you can validate and support them while they're in crisis. Merely asking about thoughts suicide does not drive a person to the act of suicide. Kevin says that there are plenty of studies that show that you are not introducing the idea of suicide just by asking about it. If an individual feels suicidal, they have already thought about it.

One of the most important things to say is, "I'm really worried about you. How can I help?" This opens the door to allow you from transitioning being the sole source of support, to being the supportive person helping them get the professional help they need.

If you or someone in your life is having thoughts about suicide, contact the Crisis Line at (801)-587-3000. The line is not only for people in crisis, but for people who are worried that someone they love may be having throught of suicide. Their professionals will help guide you through the steps you can take to help get your loved one the Just Going to Leave This Here

On this episode's Just Going to Leave This Here, Scot supports Greta Thunberg and her environmental action. He reminds us that the environment can have an impact on your health, so it's something we should care about. And Troy went to see Toto live and he had a blast. Talk to Us

If you have any questions, comments, or thoughts, email us at hello@thescoperadio.com.